Catching Up With Kieran Over Coffee About Cronulla (21/9/26)

[00:00:01] The Royal Motor Yacht Club Port Hacking is a hidden gem of the Shire, situated on the banks of the beautiful Port Hacking. It's a great place to catch up with friends, celebrate your birthday or any special occasion, and they always show the NRL live on the big screens. The RMYC Port Hacking, proud sponsors of this podcast and big supporters of the Cronulla Sutherland Sharks. Check out their website rmycph.com.au

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[00:01:04] Hey there, welcome to SharkCast, part of a podcast dedicated to the greatest sporting club in the history of the world, the mighty Cronulla Sutherland Sharks. I'm Sam Shinazzi, that's Kieran Fraser. We are here on his show catching up with Kieran over coffee about Cronulla. We're going to do all that in this next episode and talk about a few other things as well to make us chuckle because on the weekend there wasn't a lot of chuckling. And it started pregame, it didn't stop until, well it hasn't stopped the non-chuckling.

[00:01:33] This episode is brought to you by Dysons Logistics, the Royal Motor Yacht Club and Port Hacking, Jason Hawes and Cripps of Cripps Real Estate. I just saw Jason Hawes and his lovely wife Nicole down at Mr Paisely's Cafe, Caringbah. They supply the coffee. Thank you very much. I've been consuming a lot of this since the loss, Kieran. The loss that we must talk about and happy to talk about, of course. A lot of people in touch about the lack of post-game show and I did let people know on the socials.

[00:02:02] So if you're not on the socials, I appreciate that. Being out at the ground, one man operation, it's a little tough to do it sometimes. Not always, but sometimes. Plus I chose to kind of look after my mental health and I went out for a few bourbons with my friend Brooksy. So ironically that spiraled my mental health. But anyway, we did a, I did a audio review. So if you haven't heard that, jump on your podcasts apps. It's also on YouTube. It's just audio only because you don't want to see me in that situation.

[00:02:30] And I talked about 20 minutes about the game, but we're here now to talk about this, Kieran. And tonight on Monday night, if you, depending when you hear this, I'm going to do a live stream and people can jump on and have their say. So it's all happening. We're not going away. And we're here to talk about initially the game, Kieran. Now you had a bird's eye view of this game. What time did you find out? Was it 630? What time did you find out when Marwini Hroti was picked?

[00:02:56] I was just kind of, you know, looking at my phone and I think I saw maybe it was Rikio or somebody. It was like a photo of Marwini and I was just like, what is that? Why am I looking at a photo of Marwini? And then obviously I read the news and the article that Jones had been moved to the bench and that Hroti was in. And I was very taken aback by that, Sam, just given the fact that he hadn't set the world on fire this season.

[00:03:22] I understand they have gone to him in the past for that stability, but I don't feel like we really got that this year from him. And I thought Riley Jones for the most part was quite good last week. So I was a bit taken aback. What about you? I was semi-surprised. So at the training session I was at during the week, they did alternate the two guys, but that's not wildly crazy a scenario. Like you do see guys come in and out, bench players come in and out for different scenarios.

[00:03:49] So I wasn't totally freaked out, but our mate Rikio had hinted that it was possible. I don't even know if he knew or not. Obviously he knows everything, but I'm not sure if the decision had been made. And I was surprised in that moment, although a few other things that afternoon, which I won't go into, hinted towards it.

[00:04:15] And when I saw it, I was pretty dismayed. I was pretty confused because I thought, I thought Riley Jones had done enough in the short stint that we'd seen in first grade against Melbourne, who are a great team, played a knockout final the week before. I would say he was above average at least. And they named him in three as well. And I thought, I think we're on here. It's going to be okay.

[00:04:45] I know the reasons they would have picked Maharadi. It would have been experience. It would have been experience with the squad. It would have been probably a better meter eater from out the back, but Riley Jones is more agile. He's got energy. He's got youth. They're the pros. The cons are he doesn't have the experience and that kind of thing. So I can see why they went with it. I personally would not have done it.

[00:05:10] I would have stuck with him mainly because of the agility and the speed. That's what we needed. And I would have stayed with him because he was on an up still. He was still on a high from the past two games. So that was, that was a bummer. And the thing with the Haradi's performance, we'll talk about the whole game, but with Haradi's performance, it wasn't that flash. The thing that I do admire was he went out through a way.

[00:05:37] He shouldn't have gone out. He hit his knee on fencing. So that's ridiculous. We should sue them for starters, but he went out trying to create a try and almost did. And I kind of, I can't respect that. So I'm not here to write the guy off, but I, I, I personally would not have made that call, but that's why I'm doing a podcast and I'm not the coach. Yeah. I think it kind of plays into that frustration of players seem to be locked into the depth chart under Craig Fitzgibbon and right or wrong for that.

[00:06:04] But it seems to be that if there is any issue with number one, number two center, we go to Haradi. And it seems very hard to pass that glass ceiling in a sense that if Haradi is available, we're going to go back to that player. And we saw that here because as soon as Haradi was deemed fit enough, we said, okay, last couple of weeks didn't really matter. And the form of Haradi hasn't really mattered. We're going to put Haradi back into that spot because we trust him and trust is a really big thing that Fitzgibbon really leans on.

[00:06:33] So that's why the week before I kind of was expecting Haradi to play. Obviously he wasn't fit enough, but then the fact that Jones did play and I thought he put his hands up and put in a good performance. I thought that that would be enough to keep him there. Given the fact that Haradi hadn't played for probably close to three, four weeks at that point. Now, to the point that you said that Haradi went out on his sword, it's a very respectable way to go out and you never like to see anyone get injured.

[00:06:59] That did change the game for a little bit there. Like we were kind of at sixes and seven scrambling. But when we got that restart back from that play there, that's when we got a little bit of momentum going. So he did contribute in a positive manner in that aspect. However, I think once you saw Sifra Talakai come into the centers, I think that that changed how the Roosters looked at us because all of a sudden you started seeing Billy Smith was really not comfortable dealing with Sifra Talakai.

[00:07:26] So then you kind of look at it and you go, well, should we have gone with Sifra in the centers? Now, obviously that's something that I am not a big fan of. And I think it's easier to spring that on the Roosters than to name him in the centers and to go with him in that position. And he gives so much for us in the middle. But I do think that once we saw Sifra out there, it did improve us, which was quite good. But it was very hard because then you also had the Nico Hines situation, which we'll talk about.

[00:07:54] But then you had to switch Trindle and Niko, Trindle and Puru to different sides of the field. You had Sifra Talakai defending there next to Puru. How many reps has those guys had together? How many reps had Puru and Haradi had together? There was just so many moving parts there that it was an unbelievable start to the game that it was just so Cronelope Sharks. Yeah, once you get over the shock, your season's over. And once you get over the shock of the score, once you are back to your normal self, and I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to our audience.

[00:08:24] Go back and have a look at the game. And you don't have to watch it that in depth to see what's going on. Like, it was chaos. And it really was. And you had guys, as you said, switching sides. Guys coming in, you can only play one side. The guy with the one shoulder's got to move the other side. It was, yeah, it was all over the shop. When Nico went off in the first set, the vibe at the ground was not good for the Sharks fans.

[00:08:53] I was sitting away from all the supporters' base, but with fans and quite near the Sharks camp. And he walked off right near us to the sheds, and he did not look like he was coming back. Like, you could just sort of tell. And, you know, again, like talking about admiring someone in a way that when they go out. Like, he was trying to go in hard for a tackle. Like, he just got the metrics wrong. But if he makes a tackle, it's amazing.

[00:09:22] So it wasn't lack of effort from Nico. And I do know that he apologized to the team and that kind of thing. And, you know, wherever you stand on that, I couldn't. I personally don't think he's got anything to apologize for. But from that moment, he was not looking good. I don't concede the game was over. I can see why people are saying that. But I think if you're a club two games away from a grand final, you need to rise to that challenge no matter what. And here's where it gets a bit murky for me.

[00:09:52] And this isn't a hindsight thing. I probably said it last week on a show. So I am picking Riley Pollard over Nephi Peru after that game he had against Melbourne. And I, again, completely understand why the coaching staff didn't. I get it. I understand it. But I just want to let our listeners know that even though I'm Team Fitzgibbon and I love the bloke, there's two selections there that I would happily debate that they got wrong.

[00:10:22] Because Pollard, I think he's a better player. And I say that with huge respect to the other fellow Nephi, huge respect. He's been good for us. There's no doubting that. But Pollard brings in this youth. He brings in the unknown. The Roosters don't know what he's doing. We trust in Pollard for the next few years. He's going to be our backup guy. So they like him and they know him. He's about to take the Jets to a grand final. Different level of things. I get it. But he brings a calmness to what he's doing.

[00:10:52] And I think that we go closer if both those situations, the center and the halfback situation is different as in who's coming in to replace those guys. I'm not saying we win. But I think that we have a better chance. And let's not forget, was it 14-10, was it at one point when we had those two tries in two minutes and they were on the ropes? And then even up until the 50th minute in the second half, we were going pretty good.

[00:11:22] We couldn't get across the line, but we were going pretty good. We were hanging in there. And then it all fell apart. But I think with a Nico-like replacement coming in, in style of play, I think that we have a better chance. And I think that if Jones is there, I mean, who's to say, like, if he plays 80 minutes or not, we'll never know that. I'm not suggesting that he had a better chance of playing 80 minutes because maybe he does the same thing. I don't know.

[00:11:52] But there's just two things there. And it also meant that Kifusi didn't get on because I was watching him then going, did Kifusi get on? Oh, no, he couldn't have because we were down at two men on the bench. So it was never going to happen, really, with all those things happening. And even if you disagree with my selections, a two-man bench in a finals game for 79 minutes or, you know, three men for 79 minutes, two men for whatever. It's tough work. So there's a few things there that I want to talk about, right?

[00:12:19] So I'll leave the Nico thing to the end for us to discuss. But in terms of Haradi goes down, are you putting Siffer in the centers or are you putting Riley Jones out there? No, no, I'm bringing in Siffer. I am. Yeah. Well, so again, like to that point that you just said, right, we, and we didn't know, obviously we knew we were missing Nico. And now we knew that we're going to be down with 15-man bench. So we have to be very selective with who we put on. Yeah.

[00:12:45] Again, I'm just thinking like it then becomes a question of Hazleton in the middle versus Siffer in the middle and a out-and-out center. So I'm not thinking that I would have put Riley there because I think Siffer actually was probably one of our best players there in the centers. But I do think it's something that we should break down and consider because it takes a lot moving Siffer out from the middle. So Riley comes on for Haradi injured.

[00:13:12] And then instead of a Hazo, you're putting on a Siffer in the middle. That's what you're saying. Because Siffer would play bigger minutes and more powerful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and we saw that with Jesse Colquhoun. Like Jesse, I think only took like five minutes off in the whole game. Unbelievable. And he was an absolute monster in the middle. And Hazleton, I thought, actually had a really strong game for us as well. But I just think like now when we're doing the post-mortem, so to speak, it's something that I think we can look at a little bit there.

[00:13:40] Because, again, I do think we made the right call with putting Talakai in the centers. But it just takes away so much from our middle. And these decisions are on the fly. Like there is no real time to prep for this. So just on why I'm bringing him on as well is he's having more impact than Riley Jones in the centers. That's my main thing. Okay. So I think we're both on the same page there that we agree that that was the right call by Fitzgibbon to put Siffer in the centers and not put Riley there and to keep Hazleton in the mix.

[00:14:10] Because, again, we need that against a big roosters pack who are super aggressive. And, my God, I can't stand Lindsay Collins. I hate that guy. Every time we play him, he just pulls off these shots and he pulls out a try. I can't stand the bloke. Look, they're on their way to a prelim, right? So they play the game the way they want to play it. And I can't dispute that they're good at what they do, right? First set, Trindle kicks. Radley's into him hard.

[00:14:38] Radley takes forever to walk back onside. Radley starts a thing with Trindle while Trindle's defending in the line. Tedesco is in everything with the ref to the point where the crowd led by our mate Tim is saying, Teddy's a wanker. And it's ringing around the stadium and even the roosters fans are going, oh, this is a bit much. It's like, no, it's not too much. Your guy needs to shut the hell up and play football. He's the greatest football in the world. Let him play football.

[00:15:08] Trindle's lining up a shot. He's coming down to talk to the ref. Stop doing that. You clearly don't need to do that to win the game or be a champion football. So, I'm with you on their tactics. But, man, they play hard and fast. Holy hell. Oh, yeah, of course. They play hard and fast. Yeah. And it's just one of those things. We keep running into them and it's super annoying. But back to what we were talking about before with Pollard versus Puru.

[00:15:35] So, it's not as if Puru had, one, set the world on fire in the games that he played or had a lot more experience than Pollard. Pollard's been playing New South Wales Cup for, I think, two years now. I think Nephi has been playing it for maybe three or four years. Nephi's played maybe five games for us throughout the season with Trindle. So, there is a little bit of a combination there.

[00:15:57] However, I do think that we've, as a club, have said that we believe that we're in the business of Riley Pollard, not Puru. And I think this has been one of the things that I've been saying for a few weeks now when we were talking about Michael Gabriel versus Horati six weeks ago. We're backing these guys long term. If we think that these guys are good enough come March next year, I believe that they're good enough today to do the job.

[00:16:23] Now, you can argue that they think that the offseason is going to get them to the point where they will say, all right, well, we think that Pollard would overtake Puru by March. And that's fine because, again, they're with these guys every day. They understand it. I do think that Puru was a selection to cover Trindle, not to cover Nico. And that really hurt us. And the thing that really gets you there is you said that you didn't think the game was over.

[00:16:51] For me, and we live and breathe this club, my heart broke with that Nico injury. And not just because of the line break, but because Trindle was playing with one arm. And Trindle was brave. And Trindle was one of our best players on the ninth. But you cannot win a game in the finals with one half that has one arm. And the fact that they're bringing Angus Crichton off the bench, and he was literally just looking for Tricky in the line. Like, that is a stacked team.

[00:17:20] And if we are to beat them, we have to be fit. And it is an actual credit to the players that they turned it into a two-point game, I believe, at one point in time where Trindle missed a kick, but he got the other kick. So I think we're only down by two. So that's a real credit to them. And Blake Braley stepped up, and he was causing havoc. Siffer was causing havoc. Yeah. But the thing that gets me is, as soon as that happened, the air went out of the club. The air went out of it.

[00:17:49] I don't think the air would have gone out if Trindle was fit. I think you could have said, you know what, we're going to get this. And you saw it with our defense. Our defense was just at sixes and sevens because we're switching halves from different sides of the field. Then we're also trying to hide Trindle. But then we've also now lost our center, who is in the team for being a defensive specialist. And we're putting a guy who is effectively a front rower, who can do a great job in the centers. So for mine, the writing was up against the wall.

[00:18:18] And we'll get into this later. That is a very disappointing scoreline for me. But for me, my heart and my anger does not lie in that performance. It lies in the six weeks leading into the finals. Now, back into the Nico situation, he's got nothing to apologize to anybody and to the people. And I have seen people do this online that have tried to stick a boot into Nico saying he didn't get the job done. He got knocked out trying to make a tackle. And that happens to everybody.

[00:18:47] The greatest players in the game have had this happen. And I don't know if you've seen the footage after the game when Cherry Evans, who they played at Manly together, was comforting Nico at the end of the game. And Nico was just like, that's rugby league. And Nico will wear that so personally for the next six, seven months until he gets that jersey on again. It's going to eat at him all offseason. He's going to blame himself, say, I shouldn't put my head there, et cetera, et cetera. Whatever you think about Nico, you cannot put that performance or the ending of the season on Nico.

[00:19:16] Because if you do, then come and have a beer with me and we'll hash it out. Because you cannot, in my mind, blame Nico for that. Because there are so many moving parts to that. And any player that knocks themselves out trying to win a game of football for our club, you can't get angry at. And anyone that throws any shade at Nico for that, I can't swear on this podcast, but I would love to.

[00:19:40] I do think that there's an argument to be had about, I'm all for him for having his say whenever he wants to have his say. And just hear me out. But he makes himself, like I know he's a target because people are stupid, right? Media, fans, they're stupid. I get it. He's a target. He then puts himself in front of that bullet, Kieran, a couple times a week, a year, and will say things, which I have no problem with.

[00:20:09] But if he can't complete what he's saying in these conferences, it comes back to him. Now, I'm with you. If a guy gets injured in the first minute, he's under no, there's no reason to blame him for anything. And he's got nothing to owe anyone. So I'm not suggesting there's a parallel between those two things. Yeah.

[00:20:30] But if you watch three of the shows tonight on mainstream TV or one's pay TV, they're going to maybe address it in a byline. It won't get much, but it'll be like, oh, poor old Nico didn't get much of a go. And someone might go, well. You can't. Honestly, you can't. Like, so Gable Stevenson is a UFC fighter. He's an Olympic wrestler. X-WWE. X-WWE.

[00:20:57] He got knocked out in 12 seconds yesterday to a 21-1 underdog for being knocked out, right? That's in a fight. That's in that. So to get knocked out, the odds of getting knocked out is unbelievable. So I just, like, you can throw your shade and direction at, yeah. The thing that got me with the Nico stuff is, and there's certain baboons out there that just absolutely waffle some stuff that is just ridiculous.

[00:21:22] But to say that Nico, because Nico came out during the week and said, you know, everyone was saying that Tricky and I were in the best form of our careers. I had one bad game, and now I'm the worst player in the world. For that clown to come out and say, oh, you had more than one bad game, go back and watch those games. He wasn't the issue. The issue was the inability from our forwards to go forward. Well, we're getting off track because those same baboons say we can't win finals games. We were four of six. Now we're four of seven. So I appreciate people are stupid.

[00:21:50] Now, I think that moving forward, as soon as next year, the team needs to get it together mentally and physically that if one of their star players goes down, even if the other star has a sore shoulder, they need to lift. Now, I'm with you. They actually did lift. Forget about the school line for a bit. They did lift. They defended as best they could. They got back into the game. It was amazing.

[00:22:20] I was very excited after that second try, but it was never going to be sustainable against a stacked, not only bench, but team, right? So I'm realistic about that. I wasn't there going, we might get this. It was more like, oh, we're hanging in there. This is awesome. However, as you said, let me ask you this. If Trindle had two good shoulders, would the air have gone out of the club after a minute of Nico going off the field or not?

[00:22:48] So this is where I kind of go, what? Because I've seen them operate on the one half model before. And we have discussed that if there is going to be an issue, you put Cam into the, yeah, in game. We've seen that happen in games where you put Cam basically into the halves and you just go the power game through the middle. I have not seen us replace a half with a half from the bench.

[00:23:15] And this was a topic of conversation for us a few months ago when we were saying, should you carry a half on the bench? And I was saying, no, I've seen us operate with the power game, putting Cam there, having Blake defend in this out wide, and then just going through the middle of the teams. For us to change that and then to throw Puru in and no shade on Puru. But it's not as if he was demanding to be in that team.

[00:23:40] So for mine, I probably would have preferred us to say, all right, Cam, you going into the halves with a fully fit Trindle in that scenario. And us biting down the mouth guard and saying to the Roosters, we're going to bash you and we're going to kick down your front door and playing to our strengths versus trying to do what we did if Trindle was fit.

[00:24:00] I think the fact that Trindle was not fit meant that we had to play Puru because if Trindle's shoulder goes and then we had Cam out wide and we've used an interchange there, now we're effectively, say we put Kofusi on in that instance, we're really then starting to find ourselves in trouble.

[00:24:18] So I get why we had to go with Puru, but if Trindle was fit and I think we don't put Puru on, I think we back Tricky to get the job done with Braley, with Kennedy and go with the power game. Because when the Sharks look the best, it's when our middles are big, our middles are finding the ground and we're getting quick play the balls and Blake Braley is going out. And when did we look the best in that game? It's when Braley was running the ball in that period.

[00:24:46] He was finding space so much so that he had to pull the handbrake up and wait for Siffa to catch up, which is no shade on Siffa, but it just shows you how good we can be when we play that power game. So for mine, the fact that Trindle was busted, it really took the error. And I don't think you'd get that if Trindle is fully fit. I think Trindle's got that confidence because he still has that confidence with one shoulder. But I think it's what it does to everybody else because everybody else is trying to hide Trindle.

[00:25:14] And now we're switching players in defense, which I get that you had to do, but it just is compounding here, Sam. And I completely understand that Puru was chosen as a backup for Trindle and not Nico. And I think we need to all remember that because I only thought of it, I only realized when you said it this morning. The reason I wanted Pollard is because I feel like he's the player that's going to go out and get the game.

[00:25:43] So if he sees his mate Trindle can't do it, he's going to put it on his shoulders. Now, Puru is not shy of getting the ball. We know that. But he's a different kind of player. He's a little bit more laid back, a little bit more chill. More braided. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he's adventurous, but it's kind of not the adventurous you want in a tight semifinal. So, you know, we can't change that. Nephi was good for a bunch of games this year, so there's absolutely no shade on him.

[00:26:13] It was interesting, Kieran, I was sitting in the bay right next to where, I guess the, how would you say? The non-playing players were there. So the Apollo, your Isons, extended squad, they were right next to me. And it was interesting watching their emotions without staring too badly. And they were very invested. You know, they were very invested. They were very, you know, they were affected by what was going on and which was great to see.

[00:26:43] Like they were all in. Michael Gabriel, you name the list, they were all there. And I'm only going to point out one guy from the Roosters who was in a bay right near me as well in his gear. I don't know who it was, a younger bloke. And full time was just carrying on like a pork chop. And it was sort of stuff aimed at Cronulla. And I really just wanted to grab him by the collar and go, hey, bro, have you got a problem? And then turn to like Felix Fartilli and go, sort it out with him.

[00:27:11] My point is great young guys coming through. A lot of them are playing in a grand final this week, which is going to be awesome. But also was watching, I was honestly watching a Riley Pollard sitting just here watching what's going down and going, man, I wonder if you think you could do a better job. 100% he would have been. Yeah. And so this club has been defined for the last seven years by a Newtown's Jet team from 2018, 2019, right? That has been our DNA.

[00:27:41] This now Jets team has not been able to get the job done at the Sharks level, okay? So now we have this new era of a Jets team with the Isons and the Pollards and the Gabriels who are playing together. And I think Gabriel's suspension would have lapsed now. So I think he should be eligible to play for the Jets this weekend. So now we're going to see what they can do as we bring them into the NRL squad. My biggest issue is, and I hope the Jets get the job done. I'll be cheering for them. I'll be watching.

[00:28:10] And it's a great thing for the club that they're going so deep in the finals because now that narrative is going to shift because in five, six years' time, they could be the guys that would be the core of the current Sharks team in 2040 or whatever the year is. And hopefully we're also alive then because I have a big fear of death and I don't think that I'm not going to live to – well, 2040, mate. That's a long time away. I should get to 2040, but 2030, let's set a realistic goal here. I don't know if Liam Meister's going to be playing in 2040. He might be, but hopefully.

[00:28:39] Last week my maths was off. This week your maths is off. Although last week I edited out every little trace of my mathematics going pear-shaped. No one knows about it. Well, the fact that you can't even say the word mathematics tells everybody about mathematics. I can say mathematics. Do you know how much little sleep I've had since that loss and how much bourbon I've drunk and coffee? Pretty much – I'm like Tom Waits. Well, that's me pretty much every single week of my life because I work in tech sales. Not bright. But welcome to my hell. But back to the point, right?

[00:29:08] So when Pollard's watching that game and Isen's watching that game and they're sitting there going, I want that. I want that jersey. I want that shot. Confident dudes. Confident dudes. Yeah, and so like now they go and get the job done this week in the grand final. Go to the Jets. Get the job done and come back into November or late – early December and get the jerseys. Like that's the biggest thing. Now, it's going to be very hard for Pollard to displace a Trindle or Nico. Let's be realistic. It's not going to happen in round one.

[00:29:37] Pollard's job will be that guy that's going to be the next cab off the rank. And we've seen it this year with a number of times where Trindle wasn't available or Nico wasn't available. He will get game time next year. The one for me is Isen because the club love Isen and the club have been trying to get the Isen effect going for a very long time. However, Will Kennedy has been outstanding for us in a – if the Sharks are playing good, Will Kennedy is playing good.

[00:30:07] If the Sharks are playing bad, Will Kennedy is still playing bad. There's not been a game where we've lost. You mean still playing good. Yeah, that's my point. There's not been a game that we've lost where we've said Will Kennedy was the issue. The issue for us has been getting over the hump. Now, for us, we're not going into the player market. And I have grave concerns about that, Sam, the fact that we've only added Owen Trout effectively. And I know there's the other front row from Super League who's very young, but I don't think he's going to be in the NRL squad. He's probably a development player.

[00:30:35] We have out the door going Cam McInnes, Jesse Ramian, Sione Katoa, Sif Atalakai, Moini Horati, Hamlin ULA. Like, there is a ton of experience going out the door. And we have not done, in my opinion, a very good job of bringing players through and giving them a drip feed of experience. Liam Isen played first grade. And Will Kennedy's not been injured, so fair play to Will.

[00:31:01] But I said if he plays next year, he's probably not played first grade for four or five years. That's a long time. Hang on. When did he play? Did he play 23? Was it 23 or 24? I reckon it was 24. Do you want me to look it up? Let's say 24. It'll be three years. And he's been injured and there's been things that have happened. So that's not all on him. But my point is, Michael Gabriel is probably, and we talked about the depth charts before, how Fitz seems very locked in.

[00:31:27] And Gabriel shoots up to number two in that depth chart now behind KL. And Gabriel's had, what, one game? Two games? One game? Liam Isen, 2024. 2024. Okay. So, again, so Colas got a little bit of experience. But also, too, when we look at our middles and our forwards, and there were some really big guys there in reserve grade that they have a lot of great helps with. You mentioned Felix in the past. He's a guy that they would be looking to try and take to that next level to get into that position.

[00:31:57] But for us, it's going to take time to get those guys to get the reps in and to get them a big game experience. Like a couple of years ago, I was saying the issue for our club was we hadn't had the experience in big games because we didn't have state of origin players. We had a couple of Kiwi guys. And we didn't play a lot of finals experience. We're going to go back to that well right now. And I don't know how much salary cap room that we have.

[00:32:21] If we're able to nab a guy here or there, I know there's been some stuff around like a Moses Suli, which everyone will have their opinions about. But the fact is, we have probably, and you might know this off the top of your head, you probably don't. But I'm going to guess at least 600 games of experience going out the door at the end of this week when the players wrap up and they do their reviews. They're probably doing that today. That's a lot of experience going out the door and we're not bringing a lot in. So for mine, I'm excited by the new players that we're going to be bringing in.

[00:32:49] I do believe in the new players that we're going to be bringing in. But we're going to have guys that will be playing their first, third, fifth NRL game with guys that are replacing, that are playing 200 NRL games. Now, we saw it massively with Jesse Ramian. And everyone's had their opinion of Jesse Ramian over the last couple of years. So much so there was an absolute degenerate criminals that wanted Heroddy to start over Jesse Ramian in round one this year. Now, we saw what happened when Ramian went out.

[00:33:18] Our season effectively went down the girdler. Now, I'm not putting that all on Jesse and the players that came in to replace him. But I'm just saying that's a part of the DNA with the combinations and losing Katoa as well. Like, that's a combination that's been really set in stone for a long time. It's exciting because we are going to be bringing in some speed and some unpredictability, which I think we do need. Yeah. I do think we need to bring some other pieces around it, Sam. I think you'll see it in the offseason.

[00:33:46] I think you'll see some 50 gamers come along on cheap money and see what we can do with them. Billy Burns stock. Yeah. You left out, respectfully, I'm not making fun of you. You left out Leo Jacques, who's going to be pushing for first grade, I believe, in round one. I'm not saying he'll get there, but he's pushing. It's time for change. Like, we both agree on that. And what I saw on the weekend, we're just not at the same pace as the elite clubs.

[00:34:14] Like, we get there and we mix it with them. We didn't have that next level. And I know why we didn't have that next level in that game. I completely understand. There was a journalist, and I hope it's not someone I know and like, but there was a journalist in the press conference that's gone around virally a little bit, calling out Fitzy saying, I think it's something like, what are you going to do to get next level? Why aren't you there? And Fitzy was pretty annoyed at the question, but it's a fair question, to be honest.

[00:34:39] I believe what I saw on the weekend, like, and so I'm not pointing daggers at anyone here, but what I saw, I think, Sione, it's time for some fresh air up north for him, and it's time for fresh air on our right wing. I'm cool with that. Whether it's Stone Street, whether it's Leo Jacques, whether it's someone else, let's have a look, right? We know we're getting a new center. It's probably Michael Gabriel. Gabriel, I'm not happy to lock it in right now, but it probably will be, which is fine. Great.

[00:35:08] If it's not him, it might be Leo Jacques. But I think Gabriel should get, barring, you know, as long as he has a good offseason and good trials, I think he'll get first shot, which is how it should be. So that'll be a fresh change. We're losing Cam McKinnis, we're losing Talakai, so some new middles will come in. I think that it's not a secret. They're going to promote from within. And I think they're going to promote from within earlier than people will think it's going to happen.

[00:35:38] I don't think you'll have seven guys on debut in round one. But I think, I think for example, and he's had a great end of the season in New South Wales Cup and you'll see it this week. I think Tsukuhai Tsipua will officially sign on again if he hasn't already. And he'll be a big part of the bench. And I think that Felix Fartili has got a real chance of, well, I think he'll play first grade next year. I don't know when he'll debut. But he's going really good.

[00:36:07] He's probably ahead of where they thought he was, right? So I think he is a chance of pushing for a bench spot. So there's a couple of new middles for you. Liam Weissin, that's, it's been the tough one for a few years. You summed it up beautifully, so I need to rehash that. But I don't necessarily think he's going to get round one against Will Kennedy.

[00:36:30] But if Kennedy has a sore ankle or something, he's straight in there without any hesitation from the coaching staff. And that's gospel, right? That's a fact. Is there a shootout for round one? I don't think so. I could be wrong. It is in the realms of possibility, right? I want it to be a shootout. For whatever reason, if Will's having not a great offseason, I'm not suggesting he would. I'm not suggesting I want him to.

[00:36:57] For whatever reason, if Eisen could somehow sneak ahead or get level with him, because he's not, I wouldn't say he's level with him, but he's not far behind. Based on talent and cup this year in his games that he's played. He's been lights out. And he's a very different sort of player. And I think that appeals to a guy like Fitzy who's very stuck in what he wants to do.

[00:37:24] I think there's a young fella, a little fella coming through who's tough as nails. He can do it all pretty much from what I've seen. But he brings just something different. He's a completely different player. He's a completely different player. So my point is, there is going to be change. And I think there's some Sharks fans thinking, oh, he won't do much next year. He has to. He has to bring people in. It's a fact. Like we're missing players. And the other thing is, I think that Fitzgibbon's looking forward to the challenge.

[00:37:55] He's had the same team for five years. For five years, they've gone close. And he's learned a lot from that. Absolutely. Think about that. Because the person that he is, is an extremely hardworking, loyal, and tough person who has a very high standard that he has that he expects everybody else to meet. He will give players leeway, but he will also be very hard on certain players. And rightfully so.

[00:38:24] Now, when I look at this and I go, okay, how do we go to the next level? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. We've given these guys the chance. Now, I feel horrible saying this because we debate this every week. It feels like about Will Kennedy and where he sits in Sharks, all-time history. And I ruffled a few feathers by saying I actually rank him above Peachy based on performances in the black, white, and blue.

[00:38:53] And for an extended period of time, and how many, like if you were to rank our top three players every single week, he's consistently up there. Peachy's moments of brilliance were unbelievable and untouchable. But they were a little bit sporadic and the lows were, it was a riot, okay? Favorite player of all time. He's up there for me. I love him to death. But that's how much I actually value Will. It's not a shot at Peachy. It's how much I think Will is tremendous.

[00:39:19] But I am sitting here saying, I actually think we have to bite the bullet and say, with our spine being constructed the way that it is, it's not going to get us over the line. We have to make a change. Isen is a completely different style of player. He's speed. He's like a little dodging car. He's going to pop up all over the place. He's just completely different to Will. And I'm not saying he's better than Will, but what I am saying is we've seen what we

[00:39:47] can produce with our current spine. We need more points and we need someone with a fresh attitude. And the one knock I've had on our spine, and I like all the players in our spine, to be honest with you, it's we do not have a Michael Ennis alpha. We do not have somebody that's going to say, follow me boys. You heard it from James Maloney when he was, or maybe it wasn't Maloney, but effectively there was a story about 2016 where they were getting the wobbles a little bit.

[00:40:15] And Flano basically did a whole training session saying, well, we're going to reinvent our attack and we're going to do all this stuff. We're going to try it this way. But the players that we had in that spine, like the egos and the not caring and like just the attitudes of those players, like a Maloney and a Michael Ennis, they pulled the other spine members aside and said, look, we'll get through the training session. But when we get out on the field, we're doing it our way because we know it works and we're going to back ourselves.

[00:40:40] I don't feel like we have an alpha in our spine that is going to be that guy. And that also plays into Fanua Blake. Fanua Blake is a tremendous front rower, but his leadership style is very different. He's not going to go out and hunt like a James Fisher Harris is going to go out and hunt an opposition front rower. Lindsay Collins hunts our forward pack. The only guy that we have in our forward pack that will actually go and hunt somebody else right now is Toby.

[00:41:09] And you can argue that Toby is not even our fourth best prop because you've got Fanua Blake, you've got Hazleton, you've got Kafusi, and then there's a bunch of people. There's a few, Colquhoun. Like there's a lot of middles that we've got, right? So we need an alpha in our team. And Liam Eysen, unfortunately, he's not an alpha. Like he's a really quiet, nice, lovely sort of person. Yeah, exactly. Right? So what I would like us to do-

[00:41:38] He's got a lip on him, but he's not physically an alpha. Yeah. He's not physically an alpha, but I also don't, I think he's got that attitude of, I'm going to back myself and I'm going to score points. And like, he's not going to be phased by a mistake like a James Maloney in the past. You know what I mean? Like they call James Maloney Dory because he has the memory of Dory the goldfish, like just forgets everything and just- Having met him, I can confirm that. Yeah. With love. 35 years of friendship, I can definitely confirm he does not care about anything.

[00:42:06] However, what we, I just feel like we need to go out and find that person and that style of person that fits within our jigsaw puzzle. Because if you look at the people that we have at the club, they are all tremendous people. They're all outstanding humans. They'll give you the shit off their back. Even if I knew a Blake who people were like, I don't know if he's going to fit our culture. One of the nicest people you'll ever meet. So friendly down to earth. But what we need is somebody with a bit of, I don't know, a bit of Michael Ennis about them.

[00:42:35] And where you put that player in our team, I don't know. Do you find a center, like a Ronaldo part two and give Ronnie another guy that you put next to Ronnie and you move Kale to the other side because Kale can play both edges. And then you just have like, this is the side where you've got to effectively like a Will Chambers 2.0, for example. And that fires the team up because we saw it when Ronnie wasn't playing. We were very placid as a football team. Ronnie came back and we got our wind. Michael Gabriel's got it in him. Yeah?

[00:43:06] Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think it's going to come with confidence. Yeah. Yeah. On your point about all that, after the game, as I've said, I was pretty close to where the players were. I have to point out to whoever's, to the one guy that's probably doubting it. I paid for my own ticket. After the game, they were all pretty shattered, right? Like everyone was shattered. And they were sort of controlling each other.

[00:43:32] They were just in their little area on the field. Some people doing interviews. Beautiful moments. If a telecoy comes over with like this big shopping bag, like one of those big kind of colorful, almost novelty kind of bags. I'm like, what the hell is going on here? And he brings out, the first thing he does is he gets out a necklace. It's almost like the Roman Reigns. Yeah. Yeah. And puts it over someone and gives them a hug. And he's got like 20 of them. And he does it to all the team and a few staff members.

[00:44:02] Amazing. And I'm guessing he brought it last week and didn't have to use it, you know? Point being, they're all really kind of in shock. But the one guy that stood there, hand on hips, I would say borderline scowling, is a man you've never seen scowl before. And that was Blake Braley. And he wasn't going around hugging people. He wasn't going around shaking hands. He probably did that before.

[00:44:31] He definitely would have done it afterwards. So I'm not here to paint a bad picture. But when I noticed him, he was standing there on his own, staring off. I would say looked angry, disheartened, like all the emotions. But there was an anger there. And that reminded me of his statement two Mad Mondays ago where he got everyone together and he went, this is ridiculous. We're better than this. I'm sick of doing Mad Mondays without a title.

[00:44:59] And that became a bit of a legend around town. So it clearly affected him. And so in a group chat I'm in, I let everyone know that. Someone replied, someone who I respect very much, and said, that's great. But what about you show that on the field? And I said, he was top five best player for us. And the person said, yeah, but we didn't see angry, pissed off Blake Braley playing.

[00:45:29] We saw really good Blake. And so I sort of struggled with that notion. Is he right? Is he, do I agree with what my friend's saying there? But I just want everyone to know that there is a leader there. Maybe it's going to take a bit more for that to come out. But out of the 20 guys in the squad, 25 guys in the squad, Blake Braley was the one. And then it was only when his dad came up to him, his dad works for the club, his dad came up to him, and he kind of broke the stance, gave him a hug, and saw a few family members in the crowd.

[00:45:59] And then went over, to be fair, went over to the fans as well, which I thought was incredible. Long-winded point is that we have someone there. He just needs to bring it out of him. And we've said that over the years, and it's getting more and more. It's getting better and better every year. Maybe next year he becomes full alpha. I saw it after the game. I didn't see it in the game. Well, and I don't want it to be misconstrued that we don't have players that will give a spray because Trindle will give a spray.

[00:46:29] Nico will give a spray. Colhoun? We do see it. Colhoun has got that. I think Colhoun's really going to be the guy that's going to develop a little bit more for us. I would love to see Jesse get included in the Australian squad, and I know that sounds a little bit out there, but I think he's in the mix because you've got to remember a lot of these middles that are going to Tonga and Samoa and all other places, right? So if you want a guy that can go and get a job done, I feel like he should be in the mix.

[00:46:55] The one player that's, and it's actually two players, and it kills me to say it because one of them has been my favorite player for a very long time, and you know where I'm going with this. It's our second rowers. Yeah. Teague Wilton and Britt Nakora. Let's talk. Because Britt has been a battering ram for us for almost a decade now at this point. Britt turns 30, I believe, in December. He's in the final year of his contract.

[00:47:23] I don't think we are going to be in a position to renew that. I think we're going to have to spend that money elsewhere and go and find a more aggressive front rower. Now, it's not that Britt's fallen off a cliff. He played State of Origin this year. He's, again, I cannot say this enough, one of my favorite all-time sharks. But I just feel like did the early years of using him as a battering ram and running those lines, did we cost ourselves the back end of his career? And if that is the case, then we have to make a decision on what do we pay him and then how

[00:47:53] do we use him moving forward? Because we saw it last year when he came off the bench, and there were some games where he was shot out of a cannon, and he was actually really affected in that role. But when I see us go to the edges at the times, we're not busting through like we were in the past. And for me, the player that's actually a guy that I have so much faith in and a guy that I believe in and a guy that I think should be pushing for representative honors is Teague Wilton.

[00:48:19] And I feel like he should be the guy that, not Jacob Preston, do you know what I'm saying there? Like, he should be the guy that people are talking about saying he should be in New South Wales. He should be in his strength squad. So he's there or he should be there? He should be there, but I don't feel like he is. Are you saying that his form is there or his form should be there? His form should be there, but I don't believe that his form is there. And so my issue there is, I feel like Teague is getting better year on year, but I don't

[00:48:48] feel like we've had that cataclysmic jump in terms of he's an elite top five back rower. Whereas early in his career, if you said to me, where do you see this going in four or five years time, that's where I had him pegged. And I had him pegged as a New South Wales. And basically with all the raps that Jacob Preston is getting, I feel like Teague should be getting. And you see glimpses of it and you see him absolutely be a lunatic and smash people in

[00:49:14] defense and run some crazy lines and score some tries just through some pure aggression and ability. But how do we get more of that from Wilton more consistently? Because he will not give you a bad game, but he might give you a 6.5 out of 10 or a 7 and just go with the flow and not be as noticeable. He should be somebody that we feature in our attack and be one of our top three players every week.

[00:49:42] To my point there is, can you name a game this season off the top of your head? And I'm sure there is one, but I can't remember it, where one of our back rowers, not including Billy Burns in this conversation, was our best player on the field. I can't name one, no. But there's no standout performances that I can recall this year. I'd say Teague won us or Britt won us that game. I would say Burns was the best back rower that we had on the edges. I don't think that's unfair.

[00:50:08] I think that both Teague and Britt had high moments in the year. I think Britt's had low moments. I'd say Teague has had mid moments. I'll say this for Teague on the weekend against the Roosters. He was one of the, I'm not going to say one of the few guys because they all sort of did the best they could. But I thought Teague was one of the first ones back after a kick doing a hit up. Like he was putting in Teague.

[00:50:37] It just wasn't his kind of game. So I want to give him a bit of credit there. I do think though, there is conversation to be had about both those guys, considering they're both almost up for contract talks. One November 1, maybe one next year, I think. They're both going to want money. One being a origin slash international rep. Is that right? He played internationally.

[00:51:05] And Teague being in the conversation for bench origin every now and then, like we know he's got a reasonably respectable name out there in the NRO world. You can see like a Melbourne or someone paying unders for him, or you could see like a lower club paying overs for him. He's that kind of guy. And now do we have replacements for those guys? We got one in Billy Burns. That's cool. Do we have another one ready to go?

[00:51:33] I don't think Trout's going to be a starting second row. I agree. I'll say this. I think that unless people study the English game, we need to do a little bit better for the doubt as well. Like, let's not bury the guy before he's played. He's international. He played for England. Having said that, I don't think he's a starter at this point. Guys coming through are more middles. So, but we are talking a year or two off for the contracts.

[00:52:02] There's a year or two to kind of muck around with. And they can obviously go in the market as well. So, I think there's conversation. I personally, if I'm looking at it from a money ball point of view only and forget everything else, I don't think you're keeping both. I agree. Completely agree. And stylistically, they both play very similar games. They're both not big meter eaters. They're very solid defensively. They run great lines. But if you look at some of the teams right now and how they're constructing their second

[00:52:31] rowers and you look at the Warriors and the Knights, like they've got these powerful, powerful big second rowers that can just charge triple lines. I want some runners. Yeah. And so, when you look at what we've got and I don't want that to be clipped up and to be like me throwing shade, especially at Wilton because he's just someone that I believe in so much. However, if you can have a Wilton there and we say, right, we're going to invest in the business of Wilton, which I have no problem with us doing. I think we need a differentiator on the other side.

[00:52:59] And I look at a team like the West Tigers. Like the West Tigers have so many faults. But one thing that they've nailed is their back rowers on the edges. If they have Kai Pierce, Paul, and they have Fanua, like those two guys are main mountains and they will get you meters. They will give you offloads. They will create space. And in the current version of the game, you need sight. I know he's a freak, but like a guy like Kikau for Canterbury and for Penrith.

[00:53:25] Like you need, yeah, you need, if you have one of those guys, it opens everything up. Like you've got to find one, to be fair. To that point though, Sam, is we have been so invested in the lower grades and we've had great success there. But the Knights, for example, have gone out and found like four of these guys that are big humans that will play on an edge.

[00:53:51] And it's just like, okay, if we're not going to be active in the player market for NRO level players, like how are we letting some of these guys go and sign with say the Knights that are moving up from Sydney to go and play up there on an edge for an opportunity. And I think that's where we could get creative between now and preseason starting is going and scouring these New South Wales Cup teams and these Jersey Flake teams and enticing some players with opportunities. Because I personally do not believe we're going to re-sign Britton Okora.

[00:54:20] So there's going to be a starting spot available to a player in 18 months time. So go here, learn under an origin player, learn under an international, one of the best line runners in the last 10 years. But go and find me a man mountain for an edge. I'm begging you. Yeah, that'd be awesome. It would also create more opportunities for our halves. It would put less reliance on our halves. You could just throw it to a big guy and he just goes nuts. Like we've seen it in the past. With ice and speed. Yeah. So that might be something they're looking into.

[00:54:51] I do think that Britt will be chasing, you know, some bucks that are probably going to be there. And I think Teague will too. But I think that out of the two, I think Fitzy would be more reliant to keep Teague because he's a big fan. He's younger. There's a bigger upside there. Leadership. Leadership. Britt's on the other end of the career. He's not done, but he's on the other end. I wouldn't like he would be what? Late 20s? Well, yeah. So Britt turns 30 in December, right?

[00:55:19] And so we've just had these really hard conversations around Jesse Ramian and Sione Katoa, who are two of our really favorite guys. But if they couldn't get the job done, we've got to move on. And I think we're going to see a little bit more ruthlessness of this. Now, Wilton's manager has came out and said that they're going to November 1. So that's fine by me. Go to November 1, see what's out there. But I think we also, and the club is obviously doing this. Like, I'm not telling things that people at the club are not doing. But we need to really, I think, study our second rows because we're going to get a refresh on

[00:55:48] our edges with a new winger and a new center. But who are our halves passing the ball to? And if Eisen is going to be our guy at fullback, we know what we're doing there. Our middles are pretty locked in with Colquhoun and AFB. We, it's going to be that lock position. And our second row is, I think, are going to be the real spots where we can make a difference. But for mine, I just feel like we need like a 6'6", angry, aggressive. Like, the Knights have a surplus of back rollers at the moment.

[00:56:15] I'll just go to my local store and put down some money and buy one. I'll chip in. There you go. I'll be the third-party sponsor. I'd be super happy in the offseason if they bought a cheap, angry prop who could play first grade. I know, again, I'll go to the local store and just buy one. Whether it's a veteran. I mean, we saw, I'm surprised my inbox hasn't been hammered, but we saw the fella who went back to Newcastle playing. He's playing in a prelim next week and he's going great. Lock and crouch. Yeah.

[00:56:44] So, if there's someone out there like that, I think we need another middle to either start or off the bench. We need aggression. Like, we need a guy that's going to go after him. Yeah, sorry. Not just a middle. An aggressive prop is what we need. Yeah. And crouch does fill that mold. And we talked about it when the Sharks are going to come up against him and baiting him. And we had a little bit of success with that. We've seen him be baited by other teams. But bringing in Tuku is great. He's got size.

[00:57:14] He's got agility. He's mobile. He's young. But again, he's a friendly guy. Same with Hazleton. A friendly guy. And they're angry and they'll smash people. Like, they're not going to do it. I think in Cup, you've seen the anger come out in Tuku. And I think that, I think it'd be part of the deal. Hey, we're going to promote you to the top 17, but you need to take the angry pills. I think it'd be part of it. He smashed somebody last week, I think it was, where he put on one of the best shots I've ever seen. And I have no idea how that person still breathes.

[00:57:43] He's been legitimately really great. He's still part of the top squad at Cronulla. They love him. Someone who's leaving, going to the Roosters is Braden Uelle, friend of the show. He's been really good in Cup. And I think that he'll, I don't know if he'll play first grade much next year. He'll push for the 17. He'll be a mentor. He'll be next prop up kind of thing. He's got a great attitude about it all, but he's got a great attitude for the Jets. So really happy for him. But I do, yeah, I think we need just to get someone who, that maybe they're a 50 gamer,

[00:58:13] maybe they're a fringe older guy. Just, you know, remember back in the, in the 2000s, we'd get like a, I mean, maybe they were more than, yeah, maybe they were more than 50 gamers, but the journeyman, we'd just pull one out. Yeah. So I think we could do that one year, one year deal for 300 K like, let's go. And let's do a money ball episode. Like as we get approached, like the November transfer window or stuff in the off season, like we'll sit down here and like, we'll go through like our off contract players.

[00:58:43] You and I will do a bit of research where we'll go and look at the market and who you could get. But the hardest thing to do right now is to buy players. And if you look at the dragons, the dragons are signed Josh, Josh drink water. They've signed Colm Otongi. I think he was off contract. They've signed Connor Watson. They've signed a few other guys, but majority of the, like Luke Medcalf, but the players at the dragon signed were all not off contract for the majority of them. Right?

[00:59:10] So you have to go and find situations where you can pry players out because with the player market is so cooked, the players have way too much power with this, that they can plan their futures three years in advance. Clubs don't have that opportunity. Like if we were to go into an off season right now where we could buy players for round one next year, the recruitment is totally different versus us trying to predict the development of players now and what that's going to look like for 20, 20, uh, eight.

[00:59:36] Like it's so hard to try and build a roster right now, especially when you throw in a PNG team who has double the salary cap because of tax advantages, a Perth team who has to fill 30 roster spots. And then for the NRL television deal, they have to then bring in a 20th team. Otherwise they don't get an extra $20 million or whatever the number is. That's a lot of players that are going to be going, well, I can make more money at these new clubs might not be as good of a roster or a team, but they're going to take those opportunities.

[01:00:04] So for us, we have to get very creative on how we're going to fill these gaps. But for mine, I just look at this side and we've got so many nice guys. We need a bit more anger and aggression and how we find that it's got to be the checkbook. It's interesting because the nice guy situation gets you to week two, week three of the finals, doesn't it? Yeah. So it's not, it's not a huge dilemma. It's just, you need, when you're playing the Roosters week two and the chips are down, you need an alpha.

[01:00:34] Well, and I think the greatest example of that is a Michael Ennis, who is one of the nicest people in the world. But when he goes onto the football field, he is a aggressive, this is what I'm doing. You're going to follow me and we're going to get this done. So it's that leadership. And that's why I actually do believe in Teague because Teague will lead with his actions and he'll put his body into some really hard collisions and places that no human would, I mean, I could not get up from some of the stuff.

[01:01:04] I say what Teague puts himself through. Like I'll be broken it up with every bone in my body broken. I'll say this about Will Kennedy as one of his number one fans. He doesn't have, he doesn't take on the leadership role. And I asked him as recent as a couple of weeks ago and he kind of went, no, to paraphrase. But I'll say this, the pro of that is he does take games by the scruff of the neck in his own individual way. Yes.

[01:01:32] And wins us games and sets us up for wins and saves games. He does that. Yeah. But I wouldn't say he does it through leadership. He does it through skill and talent. And that might be a negative right there because when I look at Liam Eisen, when I speak to him to a lesser degree, when I see him around, you know, if you haven't seen him in the flesh, there's not much of him. I can't reinstate that enough. There's not much of him.

[01:01:59] But tough as nails and not an unconfident kid. It's not, it's not Valentine Holmes, Jack Bird, you know, situation, but he's not, he's not like, he's pretty chirpy on the field. And that might be a thing when it comes down to the battle for fullback spot. Because on the weekend I was like, okay, Nico's gone down. Who's going to step up here? Got Trindle with one arm. Blake doing his best.

[01:02:30] I mean, Fanua Blake and Jesse Colquhoun definitely stood up like a hundred percent. But obviously it wasn't enough as a, as a team that we needed someone else. And there wasn't really anyone else coming. Who's like go with the flow. But it was O'Reilly Pollard. He's go with the flow. Yeah. Pollard's going, all right, follow me. I'm going to kick to corners. That's why, that's why I'm not, that's why I'm making those selections. We spoke about at the start of the game. That's, that's why I'm picking those guys over the other guys. It's no shade on the playing.

[01:02:58] It's the style and it's the attitude. And we've spoken about that. So that's fine. Talk about this. Talk about a rebuild. And Fitzy's like, we're not rebuilding. We're just moving on. And it's going to look a different, bit different. Yeah. I'm more on his side than the rebuild. I don't think it's a rebuild. People are saying, we're not going to make the eight. It's like, stop saying things like that. They will make the eight. Let's wait and see what the team looks like round one. It's going to be more youthful. It's going to be quicker. It's not going to be worlds different.

[01:03:27] It's just going to be different. So I think people think it's going to be 17 new guys and everyone's going to freak out. Not even going to be close to that. I, I, I just think that we need to wait and see what this team is going to be like, but I certainly don't think we're starting over. I think that's just nonsense. Look, the hardest positions to fill are one, nine, six, and seven. And we've still got those guys. We have AFB, Colquhoun in the middle, world-class front rowers.

[01:03:56] You have Hazleton, Kifusi, Toby in the middle. So we're good there. We've got good back rowers who, again, I need more from, but they're not going to let you down. They're not going to be the reason why you lose a game, but they're not going to be the reason why you maybe win a game. So our new edges are going to bring speed and they're going to bring unpredictability and different, very different style of players to Kitoa and to Ramian, who I do think we're going to miss Ramian more than we anticipated. We saw that this year.

[01:04:23] I just look at it and go, my only concern is experience because we saw it with Cam McInnes and Cam came on that game and he threw his body into everything. And he was fantastic for us, but he is such a leader around that club and in standards. And even to the point where Cam's fighting for the ball with six, eight minutes left and raking it and trying to force things for us. But I go, okay, well, who are we going to replace that with?

[01:04:53] And also, Sifatalkai changed so many games for us off the bench where we were doing nothing at the 20-minute mark. Sifatalkai, Billy Burns comes on and then we get our second wind. So losing that from our bench and then losing, say, some leadership. And I have been saying for the last three years, really, since Finucane retired, that I would be playing Cam off the bench. But I do value what he does throughout the week, training preparations and all that type of thing.

[01:05:20] So there is going to be somebody that's going to have to step up in that leadership role because, again, we are losing so much out the door. So in terms of where I sit, is it a rebuild? No. Is it a retool? I believe so. But I just think we need to bring in some outside pieces and go and get some other guys from different systems. And we've done a good job of rating the Panthers lower grades and picking up the Isons and the Pollards. And there's even some guys in the Jets like, is it Fernley, the front rower who's a bit of a hard nut?

[01:05:49] Just getting some good experienced players from good systems. But we will need something. And for mine, I just think we've got to do something between now and preseason starting to bring in a little bit more into what we've got. Because I believe in the players that are the next man up. And I do think there's a lot of talent there that we haven't given the opportunity to. But that's the tradeoff. And we saw it early with Sam Stonestreet. When Stonestreet played against the Warriors, Sean Johnson went, how good is this? I've got a rookie winger.

[01:06:18] And he put DWZ over for a couple of tries. They came back and win the game. Like, we're going to experience that next year with some of these players that are just blooding themselves in first grade. We're going to get that. So I just want to get a little bit more experience into the 30-man squad and a little bit more aggression. So let's just cut right to it. There'll be no replacing Sifatala, Kai, both on and off the field. It's impossible. And I'm sorry if people think that's dramatic.

[01:06:44] I'm telling you, on and off the field, it's impossible. So just put that one in the too hard basket. It's not happening. We're moving. We need to move on from that because, you know, it's like moving on from Valentine Homes. Your heart's broken. You're drinking bourbon and coffee too much, but you've got to get on with your day because he's irreplaceable on and off the field. Forget it. Ken McInnes off the field, very hard to replace. Ken McInnes on the field.

[01:07:14] Look, no one tried harder than him on the weekend. No one put their body more on the line than him. He was getting battered. He kept getting up. The big hits, everyone was like, whoa. He's fine. He loves it. He's getting back up, right? I don't think he had a great game. You saw, particularly in one defensive move on the line with the DCE try. And look, it's one moment. I'm not hanging the guy out. I personally think he's been absolutely fantastic for the Sharks.

[01:07:43] I'm disappointed that's how he's finishing. I think he'd be great in the Super League. Tremendous human. Tremendous clubman. Didn't have a great game if you look at the X's and O's, right? So I think off the field, extremely hard to replace. On the field, I'm not overly convinced he can't be replaced by someone. And I'm not saying it can be anyone. I'm not putting you down. I just think it's the Dale Finucane thing. It's like, man, what a great journeyman.

[01:08:12] And he's brought so much to us and to the game itself. It's probably time, though. Yeah, and we saw that when we lost Wade Graham, Andrew Fafita at the same time. And two of my all-time favourite Sharks, who I campaign on here, should be in the Hall of Fame. We should do it tomorrow because of what they've done for the club. Now, one of them is your personal friend. I did have a chat with him this morning about the Townsend podcast. Sure you did.

[01:08:37] But my issue is, who is the guy within those four walls that's going to take the step up and take that leadership spot? Now, Jesse Paul Hoon, I really believe in. And he's the guy that I want to do it. He will. And I believe that he led with his actions on the weekend. Like, his stats and his minutes. Unbelievable. So, for mine, I'm starting Jesse in the 13 jersey next year. Like, he's my Paul Gallon next year, right? Sure. And I'm asking him to do that role.

[01:09:04] Then I'm going, well, who is my other front rower with Fanual Blake? And you have a bit of a role. And that's been the question for us since Fanual Blake turned up here. Who is the man to partner him in that 10 jersey? Because Toby's there. Kifusi's there. Hazleton's there. You've got Tuku around as well. You've also got a young guy like Felix who is going to be that bench guy. He's not going to be a starting player. So, who is the guy that's going to take the step up?

[01:09:32] And if Kifusi can actually make that jump, and we've been flirting with it, and we've seen glimpses of it. I feel Hazleton's size and Fanual Blake's size together, if we do play the power game, it's great. But it's just such a big hit zone that sometimes it doesn't work together against the smaller, faster teams who will exploit that. So, who's our 10? I don't know. Just on Felix Fartili, very different size body to Sifatalecai.

[01:10:02] Oh, yeah. But if he can get the reps, he'll have a similar reputation. Wrecking ball. Yes. Yeah. Like, he's twice as tall, twice as big, but a very similar, like, you'd put him more in that role. The way he's trending, at first I was like, oh, he's Tom Hazleton part two because of the shape. The way he's trending, he's almost, yeah, getting more wrecking ball than middle forward. So, we'll see how that plays out, see what the club wants and needs.

[01:10:31] I don't know who your starting, other starting prop is. It's a problem. Kofusi could do it, and he has done it, but we need it consistently. I don't have a problem trying, Matt. I personally don't think Toby's the guy, but that's just me. Maybe he is. I don't think Tukwu's a starter. So, I think you have to find either someone on the market, off the market, or try and reinvent someone, and that's not hard to do over a summer. Like, that's fine.

[01:11:00] If you say, you know what, Kofusi's going to be our guy, okay, let's train that way. Let's get him mentally prepared for it, and that's your job. And I think that he would go do it. I think he'd do a good job. That's what you want. And the other thing I keep coming back to you, Kieran, I don't want to rely on this mentality, but I think it is up for discussion. If you're an opposition team, forget about fans of teams, because fans of teams are pretty stupid. If you, other teams, not the Sharks, of course,

[01:11:31] if you are an opposition player, who do you not want to come up against? Fanua Blake, yeah. Who else don't you want to see starting? Is it Hazo? Is it an angrier version of Kofusi? Is it someone from off the market? Like, when I see some of the other guys that we've spoken about put in there, I don't see the opposition team going, oh, geez. And I think it's – I'm not relying on that to be who you pick.

[01:12:00] I don't think that's a thing. But I think it's something to think about as a way to approach who do you want in there? Who's going to scare the crap out of the opposition? We saw Toby fill the role a couple of times where he was that guy that was just angry, but it was off the bench. Like, just running as hard as he can and just going 100 miles an hour, short stints, get him on, get him off. Is that sustainable for Toby for 27 weeks?

[01:12:28] I think based on the body of work that we've seen over the last six, seven years, it's not, right? So, Kofusi for mine, there's a flaw. So, you're not going to be bad with Kofusi and AFB together, but I don't know how big the ceiling is. Like, how much potential does that have to grow? And we saw it when Fafita and Matt Pryor played together. And Fafita talks about it on the Chad Townsend podcast. If you haven't listened to it, go and listen to it. It's a fantastic listen.

[01:12:56] But he sort of says to Pryor, I'll do all the work and attack. Like, I'll bust the line. I'll do the offloads. I'll run for 200 meters. Whatever you need, I got you. But you need to help me in defense. So, the yin and the yang. And Kofusi can do that because Kofusi's a very good defender. He has got a good offload in him. But sometimes you'll have games where we'll look at the stat sheet and it's like our back five ran for 150 meters plus and fantastic. But then Kofusi's ran for 63 meters. Wilton's ran for 44.

[01:13:26] And Britt ran for 30 meters. And we lose. And everybody blames the halves. For mine, I'm looking at it saying, well, we need to get our forwards going forward and making meters so then we can actually unlock the talent that we have in this squad. So, it's a really important thing for us. It's who partners for Noah Blake because he's great. Colquhoun's 100% there. So, if Colquhoun's your answer at 10, well, then it's who is our answer at 13? Because we need that. All right.

[01:13:56] So, do we look to reinvent our style of football? Unless you go Billy Burns or something. Well, that's something that we can look at because Billy Burns, I think, was better than Teague and Britt this season. Billy Burns, when he comes on the field, we look like a better football team. So, you can sell me on that idea where you've got Burns at 13, Colquhoun in front row and AFB at prop. I mean, I can buy it, but I still need more depth.

[01:14:24] Does Jesse Colquhoun's role change from prop to lock much? Just less passing? Like, what's the deal? For me, it goes back to the point a couple of minutes ago where we have bad performances. It's our go forward that suffers. And so, Jesse has so much talent in either of those roles I believe he can do. If we had another battering ram up front with Fanua Blake and then Jesse's getting quick play

[01:14:50] the balls and he's doing a bit more of the ball playing at the back, that's exciting to me. If Jesse's being the battering ram, I believe in his ability to do that job and I think he can do it. But my preference would be him at 13. But the Billy Burns thing, now that I'm thinking about it a little bit more, I could buy into. However, it does completely change our bench situation.

[01:15:15] And there were so many times where our bench saved us this year because those guys that were starting were not getting us the meters that we needed. When Talakai, Sifer, even when AFB went back to the bench, we looked so much better with those guys coming off the bench than with the starters like a Toby, Kifusi starting and just not making the meters. Then we bring on the meter eating sort of players. So for mine, it does change a little bit whether he plays 10 or 13.

[01:15:43] But I think we need to be fair to Jesse and to give him the best shot at his career and go, this is your defined role. And I think his skill set is best for 13. You also don't want to kill his career as being a battering ram. Which I would argue we've kind of done to Britt. Yeah, but Britt's kind of stopped. So you're saying he did that and now it's kind of... Well, the wear and tear on the body. Like you can only be that guy shot out of a cannon running through brick walls.

[01:16:08] And he has done that better than anybody in the NRL for like four, five years, six years there. Like I think Britt came on the scene in 2018, 2019, 2018 maybe, like when Luke Lewis retired, running off Sean Johnson. Like that's how long ago it was. And now as we go into 2027, like the kilometers on the tires, the wear and tear on the body. And he's actually reinventing himself a little bit as becoming the big tackling guy. And when he played Origin, 48 tackles or whatever it was. We don't need that.

[01:16:37] We need power on our edges to punch through those holes. And I don't know if we've done him a disservice to that. So to your point with Jesse, if we turn him into a battering ram, we are going to be potentially changing the course of his career because it's a completely different role to that. And even if he plays 13 as a ball player, he's still going to be a battering ram too. Don't get me wrong. And it's still going to get busted. But it's different. And does it change Billy Byrne's game if he becomes a lock? He's passing more...

[01:17:07] Most of the season he played in the middle though. Can I say this? I was pretty annoyed on the weekend watching the game. The passing in the middle of the ruck between the big guys. Now, I don't know if that was a game plan where that was the way they thought they were going to go forward. Like one, two, boom. Stop passing the ball, fellas. Just run. Do a hit up. Like it was very fancy with your hazos, your burns, the middle guys.

[01:17:36] There was not many... And when I say not many, I'm obviously being dramatic. It felt like there weren't many what we call one hit up passes. Hooker. Boom. It was a bit of that chaos because we didn't have the halves. And I think they were trying to create something. No, I appreciate that. But it looked like from the start of the game to the finish of the game, it was first receiver. I'm not going. You go. Yeah. And they lost the battle there.

[01:18:00] So I was in a couple of group chats and I was texting saying, I don't understand why the Sharks are doing ball playing so far back from the line. Like we were so deep. And we were getting the ball. And we were doing the ball playing like 10 meters from the line. Yeah. And one of my buddies came back and said, that's why you're getting all the six against. Because the Roosters are creeping up all the time. So they're playing deeper to do some of that stuff.

[01:18:26] So for mine, I would argue how successful that tactic was because I don't think that it worked. But they did get a few penalties out of it. But for mine, when the Sharks look the best is when they're running through the front door of Braley's golfing out. Yes. That's exactly what I was going to get to. And they didn't do it enough. And that's a reason, one of many, where they lost. Hey, I was going to throw a bunch of mail at you, but we're not going to have time for that. So that'll be another episode. Hopefully this week we'll do a mailbag episode.

[01:18:54] I do want to remind everyone, if you're listening, when I get this out on Monday, all being well, I'd hate doing the whole, we're going to do a show. But Monday night, I can do a live stream. I want everyone to jump on and have your thoughts and say about the game and everything else you want to do. But I do want to give a shout out to our friend, Josh. Not big, bad Josh bowling. Different Josh. Maybe up in Queensland. I'm not sure. Not Queensland, Josh. There's a lot of Joshes that listen to our show. How many Joshes are there? This is Josh who's on the X. There's only one shenanigans.

[01:19:22] This is Josh on the X, right? I like to call it the X because I... I'm not on the X. I got banned. 1% funny. You did get banned, rightly so, for putting up a picture of me shopping at Kohl's. Now... Talk about your feet soon. Hey, I'm barefoot right now, baby. Josh on the X. He pretty much, I've told him, he keeps me on the X. No one else keeps me on the X like Josh. Josh writes to me in games. Sorry, when I say write, like a million of you write to me and that's awesome.

[01:19:48] Josh will do a X post and tag me like I'm on there going, hey, buddy, you gotta know what's going on. And he obviously understands I'm not on the X during the game and I always get to him, reply like whatever. Again, on the weekend he was writing, which is awesome. He goes through the emotions throughout the game. And then he said a very nice one, which you've gotten quite a few of. He said, thanks for the season's pods legend. And hopefully we can find a bit of X Factor, gonna miss Siffer. But yeah, he was very thankful.

[01:20:17] And I said, oh, don't go anywhere. We're going to go all through spring and summer. We're not going anywhere. We're going to have a few episodes a week at least, if not more. And we're not going anywhere is what we do. And he said, I've been listening since pod number one. I ain't quitting now. So I wanted to give... And don't get me wrong. There's a million of you who listened since number one. I get it. And if you want to shout yourself out, I'll shout you out. But I wanted to give Josh on the X, not bad Josh bowling, not Queensland Josh, Josh, different Queensland Josh potentially. Josh X. Yeah, Josh X.

[01:20:46] Without revealing too much about his life, he's a writer, director, kind of filmmaker. And his genre, I believe, is in the horror side of things. So it's quite a fascinating kind of world he's living in. Seems like a pretty normal guy for a guy who's interested in that kind of stuff. How normal could you be, though? Like if you're writing horror novels and movies, come on. It's just entertainment. Come on. Don't kill me, Josh. Like don't put me in one of your things.

[01:21:13] Don't have a beaded, good-looking man with a Popeye tattoo and a shark's hat. Don't do that to me. I don't think he's that guy. I think he's one of the more normal guys who does this because he loves the art. He loves the genre. Let's not put shade on art. Come on, man. Art is art. I don't think he's out there doing anything like... I won't say politically incorrect, but I don't think he's out there doing anything that he shouldn't be doing. It's just creating art. Anyway, the point is, thank you, Josh on X, for following us since day one. And I appreciate your X's. What do I call it?

[01:21:43] X posts. And even though I don't get to them in real time, I still appreciate it. And he pretty much is the only reason I'm still on there. So just a little shout out for him. Well, this is funny because there's two things there. So I stayed at a farm during the week and it's like complete darkness outside. So I'm looking out the window. I'm feeling like I'm in a horror movie myself. Yeah. Yeah. At one point, I looked out the window and there was a deer on my veranda just looking me in the eyes. And I started thinking about skin walkers and all that stuff.

[01:22:11] But our friendship actually blossomed during COVID because we were messaging each other. And I would just send you messages on Facebook Messenger just like about the game or the sharks. Don't give people ideas. Yeah. But then I just listened to a SharkCast episode and you're actually reading out my messages. And I was like, oh no, like this is me talking to my buddy. And all of a sudden it's like becoming like people are actually listening to my rambles. Especially during COVID when I hadn't been outside for like six months. What was like one of the, for example, what was it like? I can't remember.

[01:22:40] Honestly, it was probably about like Josh Dugan or something like that. Or like it was probably about like Will Chambers or yeah, it was all sharks related. It was nothing for the other stuff that we talk about. I mean, that's not for public consumption. But I'm happy to talk about going to the beach and what footwear we should wear. Because you and I both were at the Great Cronulla Beach yesterday. I was down at Shelly End and you were down at the North Cronulla End. We still don't know where Cronulla Beach actually is, if they're north or south. I was a Lurawanda End, yeah. See, that should be North Cronulla. Well, it's past north.

[01:23:09] Well, this doesn't make sense to me. But, you know, Bait Bay, we were both in the waters of Bait Bay. And I was down there in my thongs, my right and wrongs, and you were wearing sneakers on sand. Yeah. Were you wearing socks? Yeah. Yeah. Because there's, all right, so there's two answers. If your answer is that you weren't wearing socks and you're wearing sneakers, you're a criminal. And if you were wearing socks on the beach with sneakers, I think that's just as bad. Like, do you not get the sand in your shoes?

[01:23:37] I feel like you're selling me down a river here that I don't want to be going down. Like, what you're saying is true. But I would say there's circumstances, repetition, there's reasons. And there's acknowledgement and there's accountability, right? Well, so when you get to the beach, you get a new car, you can take your shoes off. Just go barefoot. Ken. Look, I would encourage you, mate, get those tootsies into the sand, mate, and enjoy it. Don't be wearing sneakers on sand because... But then you asked me other questions yesterday.

[01:24:06] Reveal the other questions around that subject of footwear that you were asking me, if you remember. Do you own open-toed shoes? Because I am a person that wears Birkenstocks and I will wear... I'm new to Birks. Like, I was very anti-Birks. But then as I became a father and an older gentleman, all the dads are wearing Birks. So I started wearing Birks. But I do wear thongs majority. So it's now September 21st. My thong season started yesterday.

[01:24:33] So I will not wear pretty much any enclosed shoes unless I've got to go to like a daughter's school thing or I've got a work meeting in the city or something like that. So I will exclusively be in open-toed shoes until probably March or April. I think I've seen you open-toed at a footy game. I actually did, yeah. I don't like wearing open-toed shoes to the football though because when you go to the unit, there can be splashbacks. So I'm not a big fan of... I don't like you doing it either.

[01:25:00] Well, that game though was when I was running around like a headless chook and I didn't have time. So I just went as I was. Did I have a jersey on? I think you were just wearing thongs. That was it. Now... And nothing else. I can disclose to our audience that I will wear thongs to the beach and I do wear thongs to the beach. With jeans? Yes. And with shorts when it's time. So my first date with my wife, I turned up in jean shorts like John Cena and thongs.

[01:25:29] And my wife is Greek and she'd never seen an Australian before. Wear that sort of outfit and get 10 years together. So it worked but it gets brought up probably every three weeks in my household about that first date. Yeah, she should leave you and she shouldn't have... Yeah, she shouldn't have gone down that route. She did, bless her, living the best life she can. Now, shorts when I'm going for a swim, right? And I would pinpoint that at mid-October onwards, we'll say, all right?

[01:25:59] Shorts. Absolutely. Not going in jeans. Just because I was on the Nico Hines documentary in jeans. It was the middle of winter and he had a camera out. I didn't know I was being filmed. I will wear thongs either with the shorts or the jeans from... What did I say to you? October onwards at least, if not earlier. But I'm in this habit where I go get a coffee and I put on just some shoes and I've got jeans on and I go to the beach. And I don't really think I'm going to the beach even though I know I'm going to the beach. So it's not like I'm carrying a surfboard with jeans and sneakers.

[01:26:29] Do you untie your shoes when you take them off? Or do you just slip your feet out? With my therapeutical black shoes, which you and most people have seen way too more than I would like to have seen because I'm not that guy. I'm not putting shade in people that wear that, but I do wear it for medicinal reasons. And it's against... Like I became an old man the moment I did it. And I don't like it. In fact, I've got some Nike Air Force Ones, which you haven't seen me wear, which I'm grooving in now.

[01:26:56] And they're not as medicinal, obviously, but I need to feel good about myself. So the black shoes that I'm ashamed to wear? No, I don't untie them. I don't untie my shoes. So for me, I wear Vans and I wear Nikes. But when you get the Vans and you don't untie the shoes, you just slip your feet out, it becomes such a hassle putting them back on because you have to untie them, sit down and do all that stuff. Well, I'm already doing that with the Air Force Ones. I'm like, oh, this is so annoying.

[01:27:22] So this is why some Havies, some Burks, just slip the feet in and just go on your merry way. But yeah, it does seem like the females in my life are not a big fan of me doing that. At all times. Because I will go to carrying by shops. I will go to Westfield Miranda. And I will be in shorts, a old T-shirt and board shorts and just look absolutely homeless. And it's not a good look, apparently. But for me, it's all about getting to where I'm going and getting back home as quickly as I can. I don't want to be fluffing around with these shoes.

[01:27:51] At least no one's taken photos of you while you're standing in traffic. Thank you. I'm sure that we're going to have a listener out there that will take a photo of me in a random spot. And you will catch me disheveled because I do go everywhere. Catch me. A wild Fraser in the wild. I saw a wild shenaz as well. We can get to that too. All right. I got to go. I just want to let everyone know that we're not putting shade on anyone who wears thongs, open-toed shoes, sneakers, medicinal sneakers. We're not putting shade on anyone. Don't write to me about it.

[01:28:20] We're just talking about what our poor habits are. If you want to write to us about it, do it. But don't be doing it because you're offended because we're not offending anyone here. Don't wear sneakers to the beach. That's my whole thing. Up up Cronulla. The year is over except the year is just beginning. Stay with us. Say subscribed. We'll get to you and we're going to have a lot of fun over spring and summer. Kieran, appreciate my man. We'll talk to you soon.

[01:28:44] SharkCast is supported by the best and most honest real estate agent in the Sutherland Shire, Jason Hawes from Crips & Crips Real Estate. He's an expert in the Karimbao region and has his eye all across the shire. Lifelong Sharks fan and supporter of this podcast, if you're looking to buy or sell in the region, the person you need to be talking to is Jason Hawes from Crips & Crips Real Estate. Call him on 0410 417 450. That's 0410 417 450.

[01:29:14] Jason Hawes, Crips & Crips Real Estate. Sharkies! Sharkies! Turn your porch lights off because we're coming out with a trophy. SharkCast.