Interview with former Sharks player Alan Wilson

[00:00:00] SharkCast! SharkCast!

[00:00:17] Turn your port slides off because we're coming out with a trophy!

[00:00:31] Hey there, welcome to SharkCast Pod, a podcast dedicated to the greatest sporting club in the history of the world, the mighty Cronulla Sutherland Sharks.

[00:00:38] This interview-based episode is brought to you by Dyson Logistics, the Royal Motor Yacht Club in Port Hacking and Jason Hawes at Crips & Crips Real Estate.

[00:00:45] My name is Sam Shinazzi, an OG from 2015.

[00:00:49] We're going into our 11th season of podcasting next year, which is just unbelievable.

[00:00:54] And it's been a lot of fun, a lot of people to thank along the way, including my good friend Adam Newman who started the show with me all those years ago.

[00:01:02] We appreciate your listenership and this is an interview-based episode.

[00:01:07] Now we've got much more coming for you in spring and summer.

[00:01:11] We're not going away, the season never ends.

[00:01:13] If you stay tuned, subscribed, follow us on your podcast apps, on YouTube, on your social medias, you'll be able to keep up to date with it all.

[00:01:22] And you'll get the episodes as soon as they appear.

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[00:01:33] Speaking of episodes, this one is a special one.

[00:01:35] It's been a long time coming and I had the absolute pleasure and joy to sit down with a club legend, Alan Wilson.

[00:01:43] My favorite player as a young kid and even as a older kid and as an adult, one of my favorite players of all time.

[00:01:51] A fascinating story.

[00:01:52] And you'll hear all about it from his Cronella days through to other clubs, overseas, coaching.

[00:01:59] We talk some music, we talk a whole bunch of things, but the majority of it is all about Cronella and what Cronella means to him.

[00:02:06] And I really hope you enjoy the story.

[00:02:08] I know a lot of our younger listeners will learn a lot about Alan and our older listeners will be able to reminisce about what a fantastic time he had at the club and all of his achievements.

[00:02:18] Thank you so much to Alan Wilson for his time.

[00:02:21] I hope you enjoy this episode.

[00:02:23] I know I had a great time catching up with him.

[00:02:26] Up, up.

[00:02:26] To Bishop, then away to Miller, to Speechley.

[00:02:30] Speechley gets it on and McGraw breaks out of a couple of tackles over the quarter line.

[00:02:34] Knocked over, got it going to Innhousen.

[00:02:35] To Wilson and Wilson into the court.

[00:02:39] Levels it up at eight points all.

[00:02:41] Brilliant try by Cronella.

[00:02:42] Mark McGraw was the one who really charged onto the ball.

[00:02:45] It was finished off by Alan Wilson, the man for all seasons.

[00:02:48] Norman plays in the forward pack.

[00:02:50] Been picked on the wing tonight to play for his kicking ability.

[00:02:54] Alright, welcome back to the show.

[00:02:55] We have Sharks Greatness here, in my opinion anyway.

[00:02:59] He is a gentleman who played 110 Premiership games, scored 520 points.

[00:03:04] He spent seven years at Cronella.

[00:03:06] Between 86 and 91.

[00:03:08] Came back in 94.

[00:03:09] Played at some other clubs which we'll get to.

[00:03:11] Played two state of origin games.

[00:03:13] Played under the coaches of Jack Gibson, Al Fitzgibbon, John Lang, Peter Louie, Brian Smith.

[00:03:18] Debut in 86.

[00:03:20] Played every position which we'll get to.

[00:03:22] Well known father, well known brother.

[00:03:24] But I would like to introduce the 1987 Rookie of the Year and my favourite player growing up.

[00:03:29] Mr Alan Wilson, welcome to SharkCast Pod sir.

[00:03:32] Thank you Sam, thank you very much for having me.

[00:03:34] I'm very flattered on your compliments.

[00:03:36] I think greatness is a stretch but it's subject to the assessor.

[00:03:43] So, very flattered.

[00:03:44] I want to start off with growing up and we'll do it that way.

[00:03:48] We'll come back to all the good stuff.

[00:03:50] Your dad, Graham, a very well known rugby league player to our older audience at the very least.

[00:03:56] Played for Newtown, played for the Sharks, played for Australia.

[00:03:59] What was it like having a dad so well known in the rugby league world?

[00:04:03] It wasn't what you might think in that I was born, you know, five years after he represented Australia.

[00:04:10] So, sort of my childhood, my youth wasn't really hanging around football clubs.

[00:04:17] Say, Matt Rogers grew up being a ball boy for dad.

[00:04:20] My dad's career had finished by the time I was around.

[00:04:23] So, I did however grow up with everyone telling me about my dad and how tough he was.

[00:04:29] I was born into a rugby league family.

[00:04:32] Like, dad played 63 Kangaroos.

[00:04:34] He's in the Newtown team of the century.

[00:04:37] My uncle Kevin Hogan was runner up in the Rothmans medal.

[00:04:40] My cousin Jimmy played for Cronulla.

[00:04:43] My uncle Peter Armstrong was a member of the St. George's team throughout the 60s

[00:04:47] and later went on to become the CEO at Cronulla.

[00:04:51] So, I have a lot of rugby league blood.

[00:04:53] But I was never pushed or forced into the game.

[00:04:56] It just adopted me, I think, and I enjoyed the ride.

[00:05:01] Did your dad offer you advice along the way or was he hands off?

[00:05:04] What kind of a rugby league dad was he?

[00:05:07] Absolutely hands off.

[00:05:08] Oh, nice.

[00:05:09] Like you wouldn't believe.

[00:05:10] So, I still remember the day that he first sort of asked me if I wanted to play.

[00:05:14] We were living in Young at the time.

[00:05:16] So, my first junior team was the Young Cherry Pickers

[00:05:19] and the coach of the under sevens drank in the hotel

[00:05:23] and my dad said to the coach,

[00:05:25] I've got a young bloke, he might want a game.

[00:05:27] So, he introduced me.

[00:05:28] He said, do you want to play footy?

[00:05:29] And I said, yeah, I'd love to.

[00:05:30] So, that was the start of the journey.

[00:05:33] I had a couple of years there and then we moved back to Sydney.

[00:05:36] And my uncle Ron Hogan, who also played first grade for South Sydney,

[00:05:39] he was the president of Pennshurst Junior Rugby League.

[00:05:42] So, I had a season with them before I moved out to Wellington

[00:05:46] and then we got out to the country area of Wellington

[00:05:50] and I just naturally by then signed up to play footy.

[00:05:54] Again, my dad's reputation preceded me being there.

[00:05:58] He was pretty well known.

[00:06:00] And then we moved again and I moved up to Armidale.

[00:06:03] When I got to Armidale, I was about 14

[00:06:06] and it was my dad's first year that he ever coached me.

[00:06:09] He would attend games, wouldn't say anything, would leave straight after the game

[00:06:14] and I would see him at home that night.

[00:06:16] First year he ever coached me, he lasted about four weeks

[00:06:20] and it was just too much for him.

[00:06:22] Yeah.

[00:06:22] And so, that was the extent of our rugby league existence together.

[00:06:29] Even when I got graded and played those, you know, 10 years of professional footy,

[00:06:34] I never once spoke to him at a ground.

[00:06:37] I remember once and that was after the 94 Cronulla Reserve Grand Final.

[00:06:41] But apart from that, he was a smoker.

[00:06:43] So, he would have to stand down on the southern hill at Shark Park under the big time clock.

[00:06:49] Yeah.

[00:06:49] Because that was the only place you were allowed to smoke.

[00:06:51] Right.

[00:06:51] So, he would smoke down there and after the game was gone,

[00:06:53] he'd just leave and see him two days later.

[00:06:56] So, he never had any forceful, you know,

[00:06:59] or desire for me to want to chase the game at all.

[00:07:02] Yeah.

[00:07:03] And so, brother Craig, is he older or younger?

[00:07:05] He's younger.

[00:07:06] Two years younger.

[00:07:07] Craig probably had a different trajectory than me in that he was always,

[00:07:12] he was always bigger than me for one from early age.

[00:07:16] But he was always, you know, at the top of the tree in respects of junior league.

[00:07:23] He went on to become an Australian schoolboy.

[00:07:27] I actually think he won the Australian Schoolboy Player of the Year in that year.

[00:07:31] And he was touted to be, you know, a pretty good player.

[00:07:34] He was good at everything.

[00:07:35] He was a very good cricketer, very good swimmer.

[00:07:37] He was very good at everything.

[00:07:38] So, probably more expected that he went on than I did.

[00:07:41] Now, you played one game with him at Norths, correct?

[00:07:45] In first grade?

[00:07:45] In 93?

[00:07:46] Yes.

[00:07:47] I believe you were off the bench.

[00:07:48] Yes.

[00:07:49] He was in the pack.

[00:07:50] 93, okay, yes.

[00:07:51] And you opposed each other in 94.

[00:07:54] He didn't play much in 94, top grade.

[00:07:56] But you defeated, I'm assuming the Bears, 21-14.

[00:08:02] And you were Cronulla, he was opposition.

[00:08:04] Right.

[00:08:05] Top grade.

[00:08:06] Yeah.

[00:08:06] That's the one game I have you opposing, one game together.

[00:08:09] Yeah.

[00:08:10] So, I did go to Norths in 92.

[00:08:13] I never wanted to leave the Sharks.

[00:08:15] That's another story.

[00:08:16] There was the excitement of teaming up with my brother, but I spent the first four months

[00:08:23] in physio.

[00:08:24] I hurt my back.

[00:08:25] Ah, okay.

[00:08:25] I did more physio sessions than I did training sessions.

[00:08:28] So, nothing really eventuated.

[00:08:30] I ended up...

[00:08:30] Because in 92, you didn't play any top grade?

[00:08:32] No.

[00:08:33] And that's why?

[00:08:33] No, I came back with a back injury.

[00:08:35] Gotcha.

[00:08:36] Yeah, it was close to having surgery.

[00:08:38] Let's wind back to before you signed with the Sharks.

[00:08:42] So, you're playing junior footy in the area.

[00:08:44] I moved back to Sydney.

[00:08:45] I do everything in school years.

[00:08:47] So, I moved back to Sydney in year 10.

[00:08:51] I went to D-Lassau Caring Bar.

[00:08:52] Some kids coerced me into playing cricket.

[00:08:55] I did.

[00:08:55] And then they all played footy.

[00:08:57] And they said, come and play footy with us.

[00:08:58] So, I just walked down the road to D-Lassau Junior League and played footy.

[00:09:02] Under 16s that was.

[00:09:04] Played under 16s, under 17s.

[00:09:07] And then I played under 19s.

[00:09:08] Was just going about my business, playing footy.

[00:09:12] The junior representative of A's were 14, 16, 18s, I think, which was Harold Matts, SG Ball, Jersey Fleek.

[00:09:18] I was a bit younger then.

[00:09:19] At the end of every year, they used to send out 60 letters of invitation to trial to make the rep team.

[00:09:24] On the three years that I was in the Junior League and eligible for either one of those teams, I never received a letter to try out.

[00:09:33] Therefore, I had no aspirations.

[00:09:34] I didn't think I was going to go anywhere.

[00:09:37] It wasn't a be-all and end-all to try and make it in footy.

[00:09:40] I just played.

[00:09:41] Were you working at the time or at school?

[00:09:43] I was at school.

[00:09:44] I went to eight schools during my schooling days due to my dad moving around the country.

[00:09:50] I was at school.

[00:09:51] Year 12, they sent me out to St Gregory's Campbelltown to try out for the combined Catholic colleges.

[00:09:58] So, I went out there with a couple of guys from school, play three games in the day.

[00:10:04] And at the end of the day, we were all sitting around.

[00:10:07] I remember I was just packing the bag, ready to go home, thinking, come on, let's get out of here.

[00:10:11] We've got an hour home.

[00:10:13] And a gentleman by the name of Ron Massey, who's very famous in rugby league, came up, Jack Gibson's right hand man.

[00:10:18] He came up and congratulated me for my efforts on the day and said that I played really well.

[00:10:24] And I said, oh, thank you very much.

[00:10:26] And I was just packing up the bag and he said, well, where are you going?

[00:10:30] And I said, I'm going to go home.

[00:10:32] And he said, but what about the possible worst problems?

[00:10:37] Like that was the last game of the day.

[00:10:40] And I said, I didn't make it.

[00:10:42] And he was a bit shocked.

[00:10:43] So, I said, thank you very much, Mr. Massey.

[00:10:46] And off I went.

[00:10:47] So, I went home.

[00:10:49] Again, it was just another, I was never a rep player, never been invited.

[00:10:53] It was just another hit and miss.

[00:10:55] And let's be honest, Sam, it was probably a day off school.

[00:10:58] And I was probably happy with that.

[00:11:00] So, because I wasn't a scholar.

[00:11:02] And I just went home and really never thought anything more of, you know, where rugby league was going to take me.

[00:11:07] To be honest, it was at the end of the school season, end of the football season, the school year.

[00:11:13] And I just happened to run into and be introduced to a gentleman by the name of Mick Souter, who was Jack's right hand man.

[00:11:20] He was his strength and conditioner from the Parramatta days on.

[00:11:23] Played at Cronulla.

[00:11:24] Mick Souter asked me, he said, oh, he asked me, are you trialing for Cronulla?

[00:11:28] Cronulla back in those days had an open trial for the senior grades.

[00:11:33] An open trial.

[00:11:34] It's unheard of now.

[00:11:34] This was an open trial for blokes who from, who'd written a letter from Mullumbimby and Bathurst and North Queensland and said, can I come and trial?

[00:11:43] And they just put together two or three or four teams.

[00:11:47] Okay.

[00:11:47] And invited us to trial on a Wednesday night at five o'clock.

[00:11:50] Mick Souter said to me, are you going to trial for Cronulla?

[00:11:52] And I said, no.

[00:11:53] He said, why not?

[00:11:54] I've seen you play.

[00:11:55] I think you go all right.

[00:11:56] And I said, well, if I couldn't get a letter to trial for the under 18s, I'm not going to trial.

[00:12:01] I was only 18 at the time, 17.

[00:12:04] I'm not going to trial for the senior team.

[00:12:05] That'd be crazy.

[00:12:06] Like I just said, thank you very much, Mr. Souter.

[00:12:08] And I walked off.

[00:12:09] And then 48 hours later, there's a letter in my letter box.

[00:12:13] I opened it up and it said, Alan Wilson, would you please come and trial for the Cronulla Sharks?

[00:12:19] So I go down there.

[00:12:21] It was a Wednesday night, howling subtly.

[00:12:24] It was grey.

[00:12:25] It was wet.

[00:12:25] It was miserable.

[00:12:26] I'm sitting on a bench for 70 minutes of this game thinking, this is the greatest waste of a Wednesday I've ever had.

[00:12:37] Sitting here in the rain, the cold, the wind.

[00:12:40] And it was just ugly.

[00:12:42] As ugly as a Cronulla day can be.

[00:12:44] Ten minutes ago, they said, Wilson, you're on.

[00:12:47] Jump on there and play 5-8.

[00:12:49] And I said, oh, just letting you know, I've never played 5-8 before.

[00:12:52] No worries, you'll be all right.

[00:12:53] I'll get on there.

[00:12:54] And in an open trial, it still happens today.

[00:12:57] I'm involved with junior league and stuff still.

[00:13:00] When you have open trials, principally, everyone's there looking after himself.

[00:13:04] So everyone wants to be the star.

[00:13:06] Everyone wants to be the star.

[00:13:07] As soon as you get on, everyone wants to be.

[00:13:08] Everyone wants to be the star.

[00:13:08] Yeah, it's all about me.

[00:13:09] Because their dads have told them, you've got to do this.

[00:13:12] You've got to stand out.

[00:13:14] So it was a bit like that.

[00:13:16] So I'm on the field, I would reckon five minutes.

[00:13:19] And you just can't get the ball.

[00:13:22] There's nothing to do.

[00:13:24] It's fifth tackle.

[00:13:25] They throw me the ball.

[00:13:26] The subtliest howling I'm running into it.

[00:13:28] I put up a bomb.

[00:13:29] Because you couldn't kick it.

[00:13:30] You just could not kick it long.

[00:13:32] It was a waste of time.

[00:13:32] So I put up a bomb.

[00:13:34] And I just had this knack.

[00:13:35] I've always had it.

[00:13:37] And is that I put up a bomb and as soon as the bloke caught it, I would hit him with everything I had.

[00:13:43] Now, when you weigh 81 kilos, it sort of worked in junior league.

[00:13:48] Because your opposition was roughly 80 kilos or less.

[00:13:53] But when you're playing in an open trial and then 95 kilos, I don't know if it has that much effect.

[00:13:58] But I hit this one bloke with everything I had, all 81 kilos of me I was at the time.

[00:14:03] They brought me straight off.

[00:14:04] And I just thought, there's nothing wrong with that tackle.

[00:14:08] So I sat down on the bench and I remember there was a gentleman next to me.

[00:14:13] He had more tattoos than I had clothes.

[00:14:16] And I just said, mate, there was nothing wrong with that tackle.

[00:14:19] You didn't think that tackle was high, did you?

[00:14:20] And he said, there's nothing wrong with it.

[00:14:22] I went on.

[00:14:22] Anyway, so that was the end of my night.

[00:14:25] Right.

[00:14:25] And I thought, well, there goes my rugby league career.

[00:14:29] It's all over.

[00:14:29] It ended with one catch, one kick, one tackle.

[00:14:33] It was all over.

[00:14:34] And to my surprise, they brought me off.

[00:14:36] And at the end of the night, they said, gentlemen, this is what we're going to do.

[00:14:39] If we read your name out now, we want you to come back on Saturday and play in a fifth grade trial.

[00:14:44] And I got read out.

[00:14:45] So they actually brought me off because they thought it was a good thing.

[00:14:48] I was paranoid that they judged it as a bad thing.

[00:14:52] Yeah.

[00:14:52] So I came back the following Saturday, played in a fifth grade trial.

[00:14:57] They made a bit of a cut.

[00:14:58] And then they said, all right, we want you guys to come back and train with the senior squad.

[00:15:03] And I still remember they started with a 12k road run.

[00:15:07] Yeah.

[00:15:08] That's what you did.

[00:15:09] And you did one on the 1st of November, the 1st of December.

[00:15:13] And then we did one, I think, the 1st of February.

[00:15:15] And is that heading towards Cornell or what's that?

[00:15:17] We would start on the corner of Gannon's Road and Captain Cook Drive.

[00:15:21] Now with the Toyota roundabout is you would head up Gannon's Road to Barney Bay Road, back around South Cronulla, through up past the Lura.

[00:15:29] And then along Captain Cook Drive from Cronulla High.

[00:15:32] That worked out at 12k's.

[00:15:33] And I sort of preach it now to all the kids.

[00:15:35] Look, I don't say I was better than any one of the kids that were playing reps at the time that all got into the under 18 reps and the under 17 reps or the under 19 reps.

[00:15:47] I don't think I was better than any of them.

[00:15:49] And obviously the scouts of the rep teams didn't think I was either.

[00:15:54] But what I did do in my belief was I had a great training ethic and I would out train.

[00:16:00] Yeah.

[00:16:01] So, so much so from my first 12k road run to my last one, I increased my time, I decreased my time by 11 minutes.

[00:16:08] Wow.

[00:16:09] So that probably stands out, you know.

[00:16:11] To blokes like Mick Suter and that, they go, wow, this guy's having a go.

[00:16:15] Probably worked in my favour and I got to stay on for the whole entire pre-season and then...

[00:16:23] Now what year is this?

[00:16:24] This is the end of 85.

[00:16:26] Okay.

[00:16:27] The end of 85, I was, I just turned 18, just got my licence.

[00:16:32] I'd only been in Sydney for three years, so I didn't have a real extensive, you know, circle of friends and stuff.

[00:16:39] Only the kids I went to school with for a couple of years.

[00:16:42] And lo and behold, I go through this whole trialling process through January, February.

[00:16:48] It comes down to the last trial, we played that.

[00:16:52] And back then you found out you got graded by buying the Daily Telegraph on Tuesday, going about six pages back into the sporting columns and you know, where you see race results and stuff.

[00:17:04] And it would have rugby league.

[00:17:06] And it would have the name of the club.

[00:17:09] These players have been selected and graded.

[00:17:11] So I just went through the Cronulla thing and there I was, I think I was probably number 55 on the list, Wilson.

[00:17:20] That's how you officially found out.

[00:17:22] That's how I officially found out I was graded by reading the Daily Telegraph.

[00:17:26] Okay.

[00:17:27] So that's end of summer, 86.

[00:17:29] So then you play lower grades to start the year.

[00:17:34] Under 23s it was then.

[00:17:35] Under 23s.

[00:17:36] I was the youngest.

[00:17:37] And now this one's not widely known, Sam, so you're getting a bit of a secret here.

[00:17:42] Excellent.

[00:17:42] Legally you can't play for nothing.

[00:17:44] They have to sign you to a contract.

[00:17:45] So I signed for the princely sum of $100 a win.

[00:17:52] A win?

[00:17:53] I believe, yeah, $100 a win, which is great, you know.

[00:17:56] Well, it mattered not.

[00:17:57] The secretary of the club at the time, or the CEO, general manager, whatever his side was.

[00:18:04] I think they called him secretaries back then.

[00:18:06] He thought he was signing Craig Wilson, the Australian schoolboy player of the year.

[00:18:11] But in actual fact, it wasn't.

[00:18:14] Can we name the secretary?

[00:18:15] Do you remember who it was?

[00:18:16] Peter Riley.

[00:18:17] Okay.

[00:18:17] Yeah.

[00:18:18] I remember that name, yeah.

[00:18:19] Yeah, so...

[00:18:20] When did you find this out?

[00:18:22] How did you find this out?

[00:18:23] After the fact.

[00:18:24] Yeah, after the fact.

[00:18:25] It just...

[00:18:25] I was...

[00:18:26] Later on, I showed some paperwork that had sort of transpired through the administration

[00:18:30] office by the next person.

[00:18:32] So it was quite weird, but I said, oh, I didn't care anyway.

[00:18:35] Yeah.

[00:18:36] Yeah, so I played under 23s for that year, coached by, ironically, my uncle, Kevin Hogan.

[00:18:41] I started off the bench in under 23s.

[00:18:44] I would make the starting team eventually.

[00:18:46] And I used to love these days.

[00:18:48] You would play 80 minutes of under 23s.

[00:18:51] And then, if you had a reasonable game, the coach of reserve grade, who was Mark Shulman

[00:18:56] back then, he would come into the dressing shed and say, excuse me, Alan, Peter, would

[00:19:02] you sit by for reserve grade, please?

[00:19:05] No worries.

[00:19:08] Yeah.

[00:19:10] I would probably say.

[00:19:11] And then, at some stage in the second half, they would throw me on.

[00:19:14] So it was pretty cool.

[00:19:15] And then, even back then, if you played reserve grade, they would still select players from

[00:19:20] reserve grade to sit on the bench for first grade.

[00:19:23] Yep.

[00:19:23] So the very first time that I ever ran on in a first grade match, I played 40 minutes,

[00:19:32] sorry, 80 minutes of under 23s.

[00:19:34] Yep.

[00:19:35] Played the second 40 minutes of reserve grade, and then played the last 18 minutes.

[00:19:40] Now, we'll get to this, but are you a forward at this time?

[00:19:43] What are you?

[00:19:43] I'm a forward.

[00:19:44] Okay.

[00:19:45] Yes.

[00:19:45] Okay.

[00:19:46] Yeah.

[00:19:46] So, principally, when I got graded, I played my whole junior career.

[00:19:50] I played from under sevens to under 16s as a halfback.

[00:19:57] Under 17s, I thought, I should have a go at lock, because I don't think I'm quick enough.

[00:20:01] I didn't think I was smart enough.

[00:20:04] So, I moved to lock and just loved it.

[00:20:06] It worked out, and I have two beliefs.

[00:20:09] One is, the only reason that I had a great career, a football, rugby league career, is

[00:20:15] because I loved to tackle, and I wasn't afraid to tackle.

[00:20:19] Mm-hmm.

[00:20:19] So, moving to lock essentially worked out great.

[00:20:23] I later had an experience in my life where I was standing with Steve Roach and Paul

[00:20:31] Sirinit.

[00:20:31] And my wife came over, and they said, oh, does your boy play footy?

[00:20:35] She said, yes, but I hate it.

[00:20:37] She's an AFL girl.

[00:20:38] Right.

[00:20:39] He's too small.

[00:20:39] And I said, I pointed at him and said, I played against them.

[00:20:44] You learn.

[00:20:45] I've made this analogy many times that if you put Steve Roach or Paul Sirinit in front

[00:20:52] of me with a pair of boxing gloves and said, all right, go and spar with them, there's

[00:20:56] no way in the world I'm doing that.

[00:20:58] Yeah.

[00:20:58] But if you tell Steve Roach to stand over there 10 metres away and run at me, I'm totally

[00:21:05] in my comfort zone.

[00:21:06] Okay.

[00:21:06] So, rugby league suited me that way.

[00:21:09] Yeah.

[00:21:09] I don't actually call rugby league a contact sport.

[00:21:11] I actually call it a collision sport.

[00:21:13] Yes.

[00:21:13] And if you don't like collision, it's not your game, to be honest.

[00:21:16] I was so comfortable with collision.

[00:21:18] It was just great.

[00:21:20] Good era for it too.

[00:21:21] Good era for it, yeah.

[00:21:22] And so there you go.

[00:21:24] Jack Gibson being at Cronulla at the time loved defence and I loved attack.

[00:21:29] You know, I think I had a career.

[00:21:31] So you debuted under Jack Gibson?

[00:21:32] Yes.

[00:21:33] Tell us about Jack.

[00:21:35] I believe him to be one of the great men of all time.

[00:21:38] I actually met Jack prior to coming into grade at Cronulla.

[00:21:43] I was friends with his son.

[00:21:45] We were at school together.

[00:21:47] So I occasionally met Jack and he was just a quiet guy, but he spoke in riddles, to be

[00:21:55] honest.

[00:21:55] Yes.

[00:21:55] But if you understood that and knew that, and I've got many examples, he was just such

[00:22:00] a great guy.

[00:22:01] And he was really in the modern day now.

[00:22:04] If you talk to the Trent Robinsons and the Craig Bellamy's of the world, they recruit

[00:22:10] heavily on character and what you do off the field.

[00:22:14] It matters as much as what you do on the field.

[00:22:17] And Wayne Bennett the same.

[00:22:19] All right.

[00:22:19] Wayne Bennett was a disciple of Jack Gibson.

[00:22:22] Craig Bellamy's a disciple of Wayne Bennett.

[00:22:24] So they all recruit on character.

[00:22:26] And Jack cared.

[00:22:27] So I remember that first year of grade in 1986, you were not, Jack would walk around

[00:22:34] the dressing room.

[00:22:35] All he would care about on training days was, did you go to work today?

[00:22:39] What do you do for a job?

[00:22:41] Did you go to work today?

[00:22:43] That's, he was relentless on making sure that everyone, he didn't want anyone sitting

[00:22:47] at home, being lazy, wanting people out working.

[00:22:50] He knew there was, you know, another part of your life that you had to maintain.

[00:22:54] And there'd be no, like if you rang Jack and said, Jack, I'm working late.

[00:22:59] Can I be late for training?

[00:23:01] That was okay.

[00:23:02] Yeah.

[00:23:03] It was acceptable.

[00:23:04] So what about as a coach?

[00:23:05] Like we've heard about the X's and O's he brought in and all that kind of stuff.

[00:23:08] Was he technical like that or?

[00:23:10] Oh no.

[00:23:11] No, I don't believe so.

[00:23:13] He was a great motivator by saying very little.

[00:23:16] Yeah.

[00:23:16] Peter Sterling tells the story of one of the grand finals, 81, 82, 83, it might've

[00:23:20] been 81, where he can't even recall Jack coming into the dressing sheds.

[00:23:24] Yeah.

[00:23:25] I recall Jack coming into the dressing sheds one day and he looked around and his presence

[00:23:30] was commanding.

[00:23:31] Like even in front of prime ministers and that.

[00:23:33] He just had an aura and his presence was commanding.

[00:23:35] I remember he came in one day and he just looked around and he said, I think you can

[00:23:40] play a lot better than that.

[00:23:41] And walked out.

[00:23:42] Wow.

[00:23:43] And that was it.

[00:23:44] And we did.

[00:23:45] We went out and played a lot better because we didn't need, you know, water bowls flying

[00:23:51] and, you know, expletives everywhere.

[00:23:54] Yeah.

[00:23:54] That wasn't Jack's style.

[00:23:55] Yeah.

[00:23:56] He was true to his style and why I think people bought into him because he had authenticity,

[00:24:04] which I think sadly lacking in the current social media world, but he was authentic.

[00:24:09] Yeah.

[00:24:09] He was who he was and you loved him for it and you respected him and you did what he

[00:24:14] asked.

[00:24:14] It was a great man.

[00:24:15] He's with us 86, 87.

[00:24:18] We come 10th, we come 8th, don't reach the heights that we thought we might given his

[00:24:24] reputation, not blaming him, just telling a story, Al.

[00:24:27] Yes.

[00:24:28] 88.

[00:24:29] Now this is where I started to get very excited.

[00:24:31] 88, Alan Fitzgibbon comes in.

[00:24:33] And for our younger listeners who already know this, that is Craig's dad.

[00:24:37] And we have immediate success that those two years were two of my favorite years, 88,

[00:24:42] 89.

[00:24:43] Sorry.

[00:24:44] Let's flashback one year, 87.

[00:24:46] You named rookie of the year.

[00:24:48] Now not rookie of the year for the Sharks, rookie of the year in the inverted commas NRL

[00:24:51] in the premiership, New South Wales rugby league.

[00:24:53] Did you have an inkling?

[00:24:55] Did you know you were going to be rookie of the year, like leading up to the event?

[00:24:58] No.

[00:24:59] I was flattered to be invited.

[00:25:02] Like, I'd never worn a black suit and tie before.

[00:25:06] Had no idea at all.

[00:25:08] Just backtracking there on say Jack's, we didn't reach the heights in 85, 86.

[00:25:13] And I put that down to the loss of Steve Rogers.

[00:25:17] If you remember, Steve Rogers came back to the Sharks in 85 from the Dragons.

[00:25:23] Yeah.

[00:25:24] And had his jaw broken very, very, very early in the season.

[00:25:28] Might have even been round one.

[00:25:29] Mm-hmm.

[00:25:30] But it was early in the season.

[00:25:32] Against the Bulldogs?

[00:25:32] Against the Bulldogs, yeah.

[00:25:34] So Steve only played two games.

[00:25:36] Steve was my idol.

[00:25:37] I think he's the best player I've ever seen.

[00:25:39] He played two games in that season.

[00:25:40] That game, he played the first game and I think he played the last.

[00:25:44] Right.

[00:25:44] He came back and that was it.

[00:25:46] Had Steve have played a season and then into 86, he could have been still going in 87,

[00:25:52] he was that good.

[00:25:53] Yeah.

[00:25:53] So, you know, that was a crushing.

[00:25:55] Yeah.

[00:25:56] It's like saying to Bellamy, you know, you're going to lose Jerome Hughes for two years.

[00:26:01] For sure.

[00:26:01] It's hard work.

[00:26:02] That was the downside for Jack's early thing.

[00:26:06] But I think like with every success, you have to build it.

[00:26:10] I think the foundations are essential for anything.

[00:26:13] Well, you know, I can look at that building over there and it'll be there in 50 years

[00:26:17] if the foundations are right.

[00:26:18] Yeah.

[00:26:18] If the foundations are wrong, it'll crumble.

[00:26:20] And I think that's true with sporting organisations as well.

[00:26:23] I think when Jack went in and cared about everyone, Jack made everyone go to work.

[00:26:28] Jack just, he essentially brought in good people and showed that he cared about you.

[00:26:34] He was building great foundations for that club.

[00:26:37] And then Alan took over.

[00:26:39] Alan had been under Jack for the three years.

[00:26:41] So it was, it was a very smooth transition.

[00:26:44] Yeah.

[00:26:45] We had a great bond between us all.

[00:26:48] I've seen a stat.

[00:26:49] Now you can check this out because you're a stats man.

[00:26:51] Mm-hmm.

[00:26:51] In 88, we obviously went on to win the minor premiership.

[00:26:55] Yep.

[00:26:55] And I've seen a stat brings up the most successful 17 for that season.

[00:27:01] If you punch in all the players that played the 17, if these 17, that was the most successful

[00:27:05] combination.

[00:27:07] 11 of them were local juniors.

[00:27:08] My thing about that is building stuff.

[00:27:11] I think it's wrong if you go out and try and buy a premiership.

[00:27:13] I think you've got to build one.

[00:27:15] Phil Gould went to Penrith Panthers.

[00:27:17] He didn't go out and win the first grade first.

[00:27:19] He went out and won the under 16s, the under 18s, the under 20s and the reserve grade.

[00:27:24] And then, look what happened.

[00:27:26] Yep.

[00:27:26] He's gone to Canterbury.

[00:27:28] He hasn't won it with Canterbury yet, but he's also, he's already won the 16s,

[00:27:31] the 18s, the 20s and the reserve grade.

[00:27:33] Yeah.

[00:27:33] So I think you ought to build it.

[00:27:35] And I think that's what Jack did.

[00:27:37] He was building, building within and we got the rewards.

[00:27:41] Again, 88, yes.

[00:27:43] Hit a hurdle at the end.

[00:27:45] There's always the saying, you know, you've got to lose one to win one type.

[00:27:50] I think we're all young.

[00:27:52] Yeah.

[00:27:52] We're all young.

[00:27:53] And if you go through the teams that played in those semifinals, probably had very, very

[00:27:59] limited semifinal experience.

[00:28:00] So it would have been an eye opener for a lot of us.

[00:28:03] Yep.

[00:28:03] All I do remember was that the physicality of it went up three notches, not one notch.

[00:28:09] In the finals?

[00:28:10] In the finals.

[00:28:11] Like it was intense.

[00:28:12] Like we played Canterbury first game.

[00:28:16] Yeah.

[00:28:45] They literally bashed us.

[00:28:46] 88, yeah.

[00:28:47] Minor premiership.

[00:28:48] Phenomenal year.

[00:28:49] I want to bring up one game against Brisbane.

[00:28:52] It's probably, I don't know, round nine, ten.

[00:28:55] It's their first year in the comp.

[00:28:56] It's essentially the Queensland origin team.

[00:28:59] And they come to our town.

[00:29:01] I remember the crazy hype.

[00:29:02] It's three o'clock.

[00:29:03] ABC game.

[00:29:04] The whole thing.

[00:29:05] I'm assuming you're playing.

[00:29:07] Yep.

[00:29:08] And we went out to an 18-0 lead after 10, 12 minutes.

[00:29:13] It was crazy.

[00:29:14] And the place went nuts.

[00:29:16] Won the game by quite a bit.

[00:29:17] What are your memories of that game?

[00:29:18] It was remarkable.

[00:29:20] Unfortunately for the Broncos, it's almost like their reputation and their aura arrived

[00:29:26] a day before they did.

[00:29:27] Because all you could think about was, you read their team on paper.

[00:29:31] Yeah.

[00:29:31] And we probably just looked at it and went, wow, who's beating this team?

[00:29:37] Like seriously.

[00:29:37] But again, I think the bond that we had, because we had so many locals and stuff, and we were

[00:29:42] just, and I've got to say, we did feed off playing at Shark Park at three o'clock in

[00:29:48] an afternoon.

[00:29:49] It was so good.

[00:29:51] Yeah, full dance.

[00:29:51] Yeah, it was just amazing.

[00:29:53] It was such a good feeling.

[00:29:55] And then obviously you had the Leeds club next door.

[00:29:58] So any celebration carried on.

[00:30:00] It was just, it was so unique.

[00:30:02] It was, that was an amazing win.

[00:30:04] That really was an amazing win.

[00:30:05] Tell us about Alan Fitzgibbon.

[00:30:07] Alan Fitzgibbon wasn't far removed from Jack Gibson.

[00:30:10] He was a very quiet, understated guy.

[00:30:13] Didn't rant and rave.

[00:30:15] Told you what he thought.

[00:30:17] But in a calm, he was always pretty calm.

[00:30:19] Every time I see Craig now, I just think, my God, it's the same bloke.

[00:30:24] Like, I can see people now or hear critiques of Craig going, God, he's calm.

[00:30:29] He's calm.

[00:30:30] Like, he should be going off.

[00:30:31] He should be ripping into him.

[00:30:32] Yeah.

[00:30:33] That's not his DNA.

[00:30:34] So if he was to do that, I think the players would sense, look, that's not authentic.

[00:30:39] Yeah.

[00:30:40] That's not in his DNA.

[00:30:41] Like, I think they buy you for the genuine soul that you are.

[00:30:46] And that's Craig.

[00:30:47] He's like Alan.

[00:30:47] So Alan was exactly the same.

[00:30:49] We all have the utmost respect for him.

[00:30:51] So when someone you have a lot of respect for asks you to do something, the chances are

[00:30:57] increased that you're actually going to do it.

[00:30:59] So, and try it.

[00:31:00] Or at least try it.

[00:31:01] So he gave his confidence and stuff.

[00:31:02] So he was great.

[00:31:04] Was he a little bit more into game plans and that kind of thing?

[00:31:07] I've got to say that the same system from Jack continued on.

[00:31:10] Right.

[00:31:11] Continued on pretty much.

[00:31:13] You know, the review was the same.

[00:31:15] The preview was the same.

[00:31:16] The training process were pretty much the same.

[00:31:19] Okay.

[00:31:19] So we were all used to it.

[00:31:20] It was just another man who we respected.

[00:31:23] We were probably on the way up anyway.

[00:31:25] So why would, if you took over a team that won the minor premiership the year before, would

[00:31:29] you change too much?

[00:31:30] Probably not.

[00:31:31] Yeah.

[00:31:32] Because if you set off on another tag, you might have to build it all over again.

[00:31:36] Craig was ball boy.

[00:31:37] Do you have any memories of Craig back then?

[00:31:39] Yes.

[00:31:39] Craig was ball boy.

[00:31:40] I remember that.

[00:31:42] They were the days when you actually brought out sand.

[00:31:45] It wasn't a kicking tee.

[00:31:47] It was a buck and a sand.

[00:31:47] So he was your guy because you were a goal kicker of course.

[00:31:49] Yeah, correct.

[00:31:49] Okay, gotcha.

[00:31:50] Well there's another story for you.

[00:31:51] I never kicked a goal until I played for the Sharks.

[00:31:54] I didn't want to bring up goal kicking because I have certain memories.

[00:31:57] Andrew Voss brings up the day one from eight.

[00:31:59] Yes.

[00:31:59] All the time.

[00:32:00] Yes.

[00:32:00] Which is fine.

[00:32:00] It was against Souths, yeah?

[00:32:02] Correct.

[00:32:02] I watched that last night and I thought you had the last one, but it hit the post and

[00:32:07] you almost got it.

[00:32:07] I'll tell you a story about that.

[00:32:09] Two things.

[00:32:09] One is so, I was never a goal kicker during my junior days.

[00:32:12] Never kicked goals.

[00:32:13] One day, and I used to get to training early.

[00:32:15] And you get to training early, they put all the footies on the field.

[00:32:18] You just kick goals for fun.

[00:32:19] Yeah.

[00:32:20] And we were having a goal kicking crisis at one stage and at training one night, I was

[00:32:25] just landing them from everywhere.

[00:32:27] And they said, well, you can kick on the weekend.

[00:32:30] And I went, what?

[00:32:32] No.

[00:32:33] And they went, no.

[00:32:34] Who is it?

[00:32:34] Like Mark Wakefield?

[00:32:36] I can't remember.

[00:32:37] I can't remember, Sam.

[00:32:38] Okay.

[00:32:38] I was given the goal kicking duty.

[00:32:40] So, you know, that was hard, but so I just, like I said before.

[00:32:44] You didn't kick a lot of goals to be fair.

[00:32:45] Like it's not, you're a good goal kicker.

[00:32:47] This is what people don't remember.

[00:32:50] The ball was different then.

[00:32:51] We had leather balls.

[00:32:52] And you were a toe poker.

[00:32:52] I was a toe poker, but I think predominantly everyone was.

[00:32:56] Okay.

[00:32:56] Because we all kicked like Mick Cronin and Steve Rogers and a lot of goal kickers did back then.

[00:33:01] Yeah.

[00:33:01] And it was about that era, Ross Conlon came in, although there was Johnny Gray prior

[00:33:05] to that.

[00:33:06] Ross Conlon came in and started booting them a long way around the corner.

[00:33:10] The leather balls had a bigger, squarer end on them.

[00:33:14] Yes.

[00:33:14] Now, the day that we played South Sydney, we didn't use the leather ball.

[00:33:19] Oh, okay.

[00:33:19] So back then, the referee, depending on the weather conditions, they had a dry weather ball

[00:33:25] and a wet weather ball.

[00:33:26] Okay.

[00:33:27] And the wet weather ball was completely different to the dry weather ball in terms of its size,

[00:33:34] its weight, and its shape.

[00:33:36] Yeah.

[00:33:36] It was just ridiculous.

[00:33:37] The day that the Souths game, they bring out the wet weather ball, which I couldn't

[00:33:43] kick.

[00:33:43] I just couldn't kick them.

[00:33:45] And add to that, the fields back that year were so boggy.

[00:33:51] Yeah.

[00:33:51] Like, you run up, your back steps, and then your run in was just running through mud.

[00:33:58] So you would just...

[00:33:58] Did you enjoy goal kicking?

[00:33:59] No.

[00:34:00] Okay.

[00:34:01] No, not really.

[00:34:02] Not at all, to be honest.

[00:34:03] Oh, you know, I suppose everyone, you enjoy the good ones you get, and accolades, but

[00:34:08] I was never confident at it.

[00:34:10] It wasn't.

[00:34:11] No.

[00:34:12] So 88 in that amazing team.

[00:34:15] Had you come up with any of those guys?

[00:34:17] We talk about all the local juniors.

[00:34:18] Had you played with any of those guys?

[00:34:19] No, I was all a couple of years below them.

[00:34:21] Gotcha.

[00:34:22] Okay.

[00:34:22] Yeah.

[00:34:22] So the Dockings, Eddinghausens, McGaurs, they were all Russells, they were all years ahead.

[00:34:29] And so you were the only guy from your year that went to Cronulla?

[00:34:33] At that grade?

[00:34:34] Top level?

[00:34:34] Yeah, at the top level, yes.

[00:34:36] Yeah.

[00:34:36] Okay.

[00:34:37] Which I think, again, so the year before I'm playing against the Cronulla Caringbars

[00:34:42] and the Guamers and such, and they're all in the Jersey flag team.

[00:34:48] Yeah.

[00:34:49] Or SG ball team, SG ball team.

[00:34:50] They're all in it.

[00:34:51] And then this kid who doesn't make that team goes down and gets graded and is playing pretty

[00:34:59] high level and they're not.

[00:35:00] Yeah.

[00:35:01] I think a lot of them resented it.

[00:35:02] Yeah, right.

[00:35:03] For a long time, but I couldn't help that.

[00:35:06] 88.

[00:35:07] Now we're only in the comp for 20 years.

[00:35:09] Was the whole, you haven't won one yet, a thing at all?

[00:35:12] Oh, I can't recall that at all.

[00:35:14] Yeah, okay.

[00:35:14] Because as a fan, I mean, I was young, but I didn't remember that kind of ridicule until

[00:35:20] the mid 90s at least.

[00:35:22] Yeah.

[00:35:22] But was, I guess my question is, was there a pressure on you to kind of go all the way

[00:35:25] or just the normal, the normal pressure of like, oh, we want you to win the comp?

[00:35:30] Well, I think as a, as a professional athlete, you want to win anyway.

[00:35:33] Yeah.

[00:35:33] Yeah.

[00:35:34] If you're, if you're not there to win at that level, you're probably missing something.

[00:35:39] So at what point in the season did you feel like you could, you could do it?

[00:35:42] Well, we went on a run where we won 12 in a row, didn't we?

[00:35:45] Yeah.

[00:35:46] So it was snowballing.

[00:35:48] It's probably not the pressure of having to win, you know, need to win.

[00:35:53] It's the, it's the pressure of dealing of this expectation of everyone else to do

[00:35:58] it.

[00:35:58] Yeah.

[00:35:58] Yeah.

[00:35:58] Yeah.

[00:35:58] There's only 17 of us.

[00:36:00] Hey, listen, we go out every, we train every Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday morning to win.

[00:36:05] Yeah.

[00:36:05] We run out on the field to win.

[00:36:07] Yeah.

[00:36:08] Our intention is to win.

[00:36:10] But when you've got 150,000 shark supporters in the Shire who are a part of your everyday

[00:36:16] life telling you, you've got to win, you're going to win, you're going to win.

[00:36:20] You know, there's a reason to say that maybe we weren't comfortable with that.

[00:36:26] Right.

[00:36:26] Right.

[00:36:26] So how did you handle that kind of, cause you were, cause you were young, you played

[00:36:31] in all the positions, you're rookie of the year.

[00:36:33] You had a spotlight on you compared to, I don't even know who to pick out, but compared

[00:36:39] to even like a Craig Diamond or someone, you know what I mean?

[00:36:42] Like you were a little bit of the heartthrob.

[00:36:44] Yeah.

[00:36:44] How did you handle that?

[00:36:45] I handled it all right because I am 80% of my dad.

[00:36:50] I've, I've always been taught to be humble and grow up.

[00:36:55] I don't, and respectful.

[00:36:56] My dad was a disciplinarian.

[00:36:58] So I got out of line and stuff, but.

[00:37:00] So you didn't buy in, you were just like, Oh thanks.

[00:37:02] Yeah.

[00:37:03] To be honest, to get away from it, you go and hang out with your, with your real friends

[00:37:08] or, you know, your kids you went to school with.

[00:37:10] Cause you know, they just, they know you for the, you know, opening bowler in the 16 C's

[00:37:15] and stuff.

[00:37:15] And that's sometimes when you're, you know, being projected in magazines and papers as

[00:37:21] this sort of thing to go and hang out with guys who know that you cannot bowl an in-swinger.

[00:37:27] It's pretty cool.

[00:37:28] So that brings you back down to earth.

[00:37:30] Yeah.

[00:37:31] Tell me about some of the guys in the 88 team.

[00:37:35] Tell me about our mutual friend, John Docking.

[00:37:38] Tell me about him.

[00:37:39] Docko.

[00:37:39] So I sort of got taken under my wing by a few of the boys, which I'm very grateful for

[00:37:44] and still mates with today and still go to their, well, they're all having their 60th

[00:37:48] Yes.

[00:37:49] At the moment.

[00:37:49] So I'm sort of going to them.

[00:37:51] Jonathan Docking was great.

[00:37:53] He was a bachelor at the time.

[00:37:57] That's what he said about you too.

[00:37:58] Did he?

[00:37:59] Yeah.

[00:38:00] Right.

[00:38:01] Well, I don't need to go in that, but.

[00:38:02] Well, I'd only been in the Shire for three years and stuff.

[00:38:06] And then when I got swept up in the footy thing, like, and you're playing for Jack Gibson.

[00:38:11] So you, you prepare the night before training for training and you appear the night before

[00:38:16] going for going.

[00:38:17] So I couldn't tell you the amount of 18th birthdays and 21st birthdays that I never went to.

[00:38:22] It would be an insane amount.

[00:38:25] Yeah.

[00:38:25] Because I just chose, that was it.

[00:38:28] Yeah.

[00:38:28] So one of my best friends had his 21st and I just, I didn't go because I just, you know,

[00:38:38] I go and not drink and stuff.

[00:38:40] Yeah.

[00:38:40] But then they're going to talk about footy all night.

[00:38:42] Yeah.

[00:38:42] I've got to be up in the morning.

[00:38:43] To be taken under the wing of Docking, Eddinghausen, McGaw.

[00:38:49] Gavin Miller was very instrumental.

[00:38:51] David Hatch was extremely influential.

[00:38:53] I saw some resemblance to my dad.

[00:38:56] Like he was a quiet, spoken guy.

[00:38:59] Yeah.

[00:38:59] Humble.

[00:39:00] Gavin, um, was very direct.

[00:39:02] Told you if you did good, you did good.

[00:39:05] If you had to step it up, you had to step it up.

[00:39:07] Um, the Dane Sorensons.

[00:39:09] So the, the Gavins, Danes and David or Danger as we call them, they were people you looked

[00:39:15] up to and I sort of, you did what they do.

[00:39:17] Right.

[00:39:18] They were tough.

[00:39:18] They got up.

[00:39:19] The dockings, Glenn Coleman's one of my great mates.

[00:39:22] Barry Russell's one of my great mates.

[00:39:24] Still to this day, I'll have coffee with Barry tomorrow and I'll try and get a beer

[00:39:28] with Docking on the weekend or I, uh, interviewed Andrew Eddinghausen at a function a couple of

[00:39:33] weeks ago.

[00:39:34] They're still good people and, and essentially goes back to character before talent.

[00:39:39] Yeah.

[00:39:39] A lot of good people there.

[00:39:40] Yeah.

[00:39:41] So you're still pretty much friends with the majority of that era of the Sharks.

[00:39:45] Correct.

[00:39:45] Yeah.

[00:39:46] Yeah.

[00:39:46] Absolutely.

[00:39:47] We'll talk about the old boys in a little bit.

[00:39:49] Tell me about someone who was in the news recently, Michael Speechley, who I believe

[00:39:53] is doing okay.

[00:39:54] Correct.

[00:39:55] Tell me about speech back in the day.

[00:39:56] Back in the day, speech was, uh, pretty similar to how he is now.

[00:40:01] He was a very unassuming guy.

[00:40:04] Geez, he was tough.

[00:40:05] Yeah.

[00:40:06] I'll tell you.

[00:40:06] Oh, he was a lawnmower.

[00:40:07] Yeah.

[00:40:07] I had a conversation with Jeff Fennick the other day, um, who's great mates with Michael.

[00:40:12] Right.

[00:40:12] So Jeff Fennick and Michael played footy together from under fives to under 17s.

[00:40:16] Right.

[00:40:16] And Michael's dad was the coach of the team.

[00:40:19] And Jeff told me that, uh, Michael's dad, when he was like 12 years of age, made him

[00:40:25] tackle the A graders for practice.

[00:40:27] Wow.

[00:40:28] So, hence why Michael, again, wasn't afraid of collision.

[00:40:32] Yeah.

[00:40:32] He'd become so used to it.

[00:40:33] Yeah.

[00:40:34] Um, it was natural for him.

[00:40:35] So, yeah.

[00:40:36] So he was, he was a great, he was very quiet.

[00:40:38] Like if, if the media wanted to get hold of him, he would tell ET or sparkles to walk

[00:40:44] out the front door and they'd get swamped and he would walk out the back door and walk

[00:40:48] off.

[00:40:49] That's how he was.

[00:40:50] Yeah.

[00:40:50] And that's how he is to this day.

[00:40:52] So yeah, yeah.

[00:40:52] He's okay.

[00:40:53] We, you know, he's a guy who likes his privacy and we've got to respect that.

[00:40:57] So for sure.

[00:40:57] We just got to get him to a reunion.

[00:40:59] That's all.

[00:40:59] And, uh, you know, if there's any, any ex players that have not been to any of our

[00:41:05] reunions and they're listening today, get in touch with us cause we've been making

[00:41:10] great dreams.

[00:41:11] And that's of all grades, correct?

[00:41:12] All grades.

[00:41:12] Yeah.

[00:41:13] Yeah.

[00:41:13] Yeah.

[00:41:13] So we've, you know, I went to a reunion, I would say, uh, seven years ago, maybe eight

[00:41:20] and we had 34 players turn up for a sharks reunion.

[00:41:24] So again, you've got to build stuff, right?

[00:41:27] So cause now we're at what?

[00:41:29] 130 and 140.

[00:41:30] Well, we had over 150 this year.

[00:41:31] 150.

[00:41:32] Awesome.

[00:41:32] Cause well, the takeaway from that day was we've got to do better than this.

[00:41:36] So a group of us sort of like formed a committee.

[00:41:39] Well, I don't know if we formed it, we were appointed to it.

[00:41:41] And, um, and we've been driving it hard and, and, um,

[00:41:44] So it's you, Ben Ross, Barry Russell, Stuart Raper, Aaron Raper.

[00:41:48] Yeah.

[00:41:48] And, um, we could not survive and could not do what we do without the help of Kylie Lugas

[00:41:53] from the sharks.

[00:41:54] She's been outstanding for us.

[00:41:55] Yep.

[00:41:55] And, uh, thank you to Dino and the sharks for allowing her to spend time on it.

[00:41:59] Cause it's brought us all back together.

[00:42:01] And, you know, you get to 2016 grand final, which was in itself fantastic.

[00:42:07] We'll get there.

[00:42:08] We'll get there.

[00:42:09] But so the day after that to be in the front bar of a hotel with, I've got to say a

[00:42:17] hundred X players.

[00:42:18] And it was just, it was as good as the night before.

[00:42:21] I'm sure.

[00:42:22] So we want everyone to be involved.

[00:42:24] Okay.

[00:42:25] One of my all time favorite players, Gavin Miller.

[00:42:28] I mean, Gavin's been on the show a few times.

[00:42:30] Tell me about some recollections about, about Gav.

[00:42:33] You would have, it was very common to have a painkiller just to play like, Doc, this is

[00:42:38] sore.

[00:42:39] This is sore.

[00:42:39] This is, I can't just whack a needle in there.

[00:42:42] I've got to say, Gavin had more needles than anyone I've ever seen in my whole rugby league.

[00:42:47] And now I spent 12 years coaching after I finished playing.

[00:42:50] Right.

[00:42:51] He had more needles than anyone I've ever seen.

[00:42:54] There is no way that he wasn't going to play.

[00:42:56] It's just, I've got to, I would have to sit down with your stat system and look how many

[00:43:02] games he actually missed because he just kept going.

[00:43:07] Yeah.

[00:43:08] And, and he, and he actually played the game harder as hard as anyone in our team because

[00:43:13] he went to war with a lot of our opposition players.

[00:43:16] Like he was, yeah, he was.

[00:43:18] Cause he was, I'm assuming the most senior guy in that couple of years that you're all

[00:43:23] together.

[00:43:23] Right.

[00:43:24] Yeah.

[00:43:24] Well, there was Dane and David Hatch.

[00:43:26] They were right.

[00:43:26] Right.

[00:43:27] So they were, every team needs, you know, that Jared Weir Hargraves.

[00:43:32] Yeah.

[00:43:33] That's someone who's going to put his head up and just, and he's just touting the opposition.

[00:43:39] That was Gavin.

[00:43:40] Gavin did that right.

[00:43:40] But he was also the best ball player he ever saw.

[00:43:42] Yeah, correct.

[00:43:43] Cause so many players wanted, wanted him.

[00:43:47] Yeah.

[00:43:47] They went after him.

[00:43:48] Yeah.

[00:43:48] So he just, I think it was part of his strategy.

[00:43:51] So like he could mouth off, mouth off, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:43:55] Rough them up, whatever.

[00:43:57] Um, three of them would run in to get him.

[00:43:58] He just popped one off the side and Barry Russell gone.

[00:44:01] Like there was a smarts to his thing.

[00:44:03] But his body just.

[00:44:04] Oh, his body wore it.

[00:44:05] Yeah.

[00:44:05] His body wore it.

[00:44:06] Yeah.

[00:44:06] So I, I have the utmost respect for him in that regard.

[00:44:10] Yeah.

[00:44:10] Again, being an 18 year old kid hanging around a footy club, I'm pretty sure Jack looked after

[00:44:17] me in many ways.

[00:44:18] He was more like, Jack was like a dad slash coach, right?

[00:44:22] Right.

[00:44:22] But Jack wasn't at the pubs and the bars and the nightclubs.

[00:44:26] So whereas Gavin might've been at the pub.

[00:44:27] So he was always there to just, you know, hey, yeah, yeah.

[00:44:31] Hey, watch this, Blake, you know, hey.

[00:44:33] Now I've left out a big part of the storyline and that is you're an origin representative.

[00:44:39] 89.

[00:44:40] Two games, two and three.

[00:44:41] Yeah.

[00:44:41] With Gavin Miller.

[00:44:42] Captain, is that correct?

[00:44:44] Yes.

[00:44:44] Yeah.

[00:44:45] Not a successful campaign on paper, but what an amazing experience.

[00:44:49] It was an amazing experience.

[00:44:51] Wasn't a successful campaign on paper.

[00:44:53] But going back to what I said before, that was Jack Gibson's first year as coach.

[00:44:58] Right.

[00:44:58] And he made changes.

[00:45:00] He introduced a couple of blokes you might've heard of by the name of Glenn Lazarus, Laurie

[00:45:05] Daly, Brad Clyde, Brad Mackay.

[00:45:09] Mm-hmm.

[00:45:09] So he went in there and consequently, I think probably the next two to three years they won

[00:45:16] convincingly.

[00:45:17] Gotcha.

[00:45:18] Because it was the changing of the guard and that was Jack's doing.

[00:45:22] I mean, they reaped the rewards later on.

[00:45:24] Again, build it.

[00:45:26] He built a foundation with these guys and then they were dominant after that.

[00:45:31] I'll tell you how, so finding out how you make your origins.

[00:45:34] It wasn't the back of the paper, surely?

[00:45:36] No.

[00:45:37] It wasn't phone calls because you didn't have a mobile phone.

[00:45:39] We used to love Sunday afternoon, three o'clock games at Shark Park.

[00:45:43] It was Endeavour.

[00:45:45] It was Ronson.

[00:45:46] It was Caltex.

[00:45:47] I've been through a few.

[00:45:49] We used to love it.

[00:45:50] Yeah.

[00:45:50] And then because all the Shire was there, it was Sunday, it was their day off.

[00:45:53] It used to be packed.

[00:45:54] But I also used to love the North Cronulla Hotel.

[00:45:57] It was famous for its big balcony back in the day.

[00:46:01] So custom-wise, we'd play a game.

[00:46:04] I would go to the club for a while and then come that six o'clock, I would go down to

[00:46:12] North East for a couple of hours to meet either my school friends or my surf club mates or the

[00:46:17] guys from Port Aking Rugby mates.

[00:46:20] I had a circle of mates there.

[00:46:21] Yeah.

[00:46:22] And we would stand in the same spot every week.

[00:46:24] For those who don't know, the balcony at North Cronulla Hotel at the time would accommodate

[00:46:30] 500 people.

[00:46:31] It was massive.

[00:46:32] Right.

[00:46:32] And we used to stand just inside the hotel near the cigarette machine and just watch the

[00:46:40] antics of these 500 and they would get looser and looser and looser as the time went on.

[00:46:46] So I'm standing there one day just enjoying a beer, you know, we've played that day, I'm

[00:46:51] feeling alright and I could see my uncle walking.

[00:46:54] My uncle Bruce would have been 60 at the time.

[00:46:58] And so it's like a beacon.

[00:47:01] It's like a flare's gone off because there's no one within 30 years of his age group.

[00:47:07] Yeah.

[00:47:07] And I'm going, what the hell is going on here?

[00:47:11] And my immediate thoughts was, this is not good.

[00:47:13] Right.

[00:47:14] Because if my uncle Bruce is coming to North East, my mum was a chronic asthmatic and had

[00:47:19] heart problems, had everything, right?

[00:47:21] Yeah.

[00:47:21] And my dad, his health deteriorated later in his life as well.

[00:47:25] And I'm going, well, this is not good.

[00:47:28] So I start walking to see Uncle Bruce and we meet in the middle of this balcony of 500

[00:47:36] people who are 25 or less.

[00:47:38] And I said, mate, what are you doing here?

[00:47:42] He said, can I talk to you outside?

[00:47:44] And I went, oh God, here we go.

[00:47:45] So I go down and he said, listen, your mum's over there.

[00:47:50] She wants to talk to you.

[00:47:51] So I'm going, mum's safe.

[00:47:53] Yeah.

[00:47:53] Maybe dad's.

[00:47:55] It's Sunday.

[00:47:55] Like I've been doing this for four years and I've never once had this.

[00:47:59] Why?

[00:48:01] So I go over and sit in the car.

[00:48:04] I still get emotional about it.

[00:48:06] Yeah.

[00:48:07] Mum says, oh, I've got something to tell you.

[00:48:10] I said, hey, what's up?

[00:48:11] She said, you've just been named in the State of Origin team.

[00:48:15] I went, really?

[00:48:17] She said, yep, yep.

[00:48:18] And she was all excited, hugs, kisses, you know, whatever.

[00:48:22] Then Uncle Bruce chimes in.

[00:48:24] So how did your mum know?

[00:48:25] She heard it on the radio.

[00:48:27] Okay.

[00:48:27] She was an avid, she had radio going 24-7.

[00:48:30] So six o'clock, Walden's on and here's the Origin team.

[00:48:32] Yeah.

[00:48:33] Alan Wilson.

[00:48:33] Alan Wilson.

[00:48:34] She lives in Cronulla.

[00:48:36] She rings my Uncle Bruce, who lives in Sylvania, to come down to her place so they

[00:48:40] could go to North East to go and find me.

[00:48:43] Because she knew I won't know.

[00:48:45] And so that's what happened.

[00:48:46] And she said, what do you want to do?

[00:48:48] What do you want me to do?

[00:48:50] And I said, nothing, why?

[00:48:51] Like, and I said, I don't know, I don't know what to do.

[00:48:55] So they read my name out.

[00:48:56] I don't know.

[00:48:57] I'll probably find out tomorrow.

[00:48:58] I don't know.

[00:48:59] She said, well, do you want me to take you down to the club?

[00:49:02] I said, I'm in the middle of a shout up here.

[00:49:05] I'm going back inside.

[00:49:07] She said, really?

[00:49:08] And I said, yeah, yeah, I've got to go.

[00:49:09] I can't walk out and not tell them.

[00:49:11] So I walked up the stairs.

[00:49:13] Now, I probably floated up the stairs, to be honest.

[00:49:15] And probably floated across the balcony and resumed my normal position.

[00:49:21] And for the next, North East shut at 10.

[00:49:23] Yeah.

[00:49:24] Next three hours, I never told a soul.

[00:49:26] Wow.

[00:49:27] And not one person ever said anything.

[00:49:30] So no one in the venue knew.

[00:49:31] So I just stood there for three hours.

[00:49:33] People were probably talking to me.

[00:49:35] I probably couldn't.

[00:49:36] Yeah, yeah.

[00:49:36] I wasn't listening to be honest, but I was on another cloud.

[00:49:38] So 10 o'clock at the pub shop, I thought, oh, I better get down to the club.

[00:49:41] So I get it.

[00:49:42] I remember walking in the stairs and Barry Russell's wife was the first person I saw.

[00:49:47] Wow.

[00:49:47] So she just drove me home.

[00:49:49] So from then it was, you know, I got caught up in that whirlwind sort of week and stuff.

[00:49:54] Yeah.

[00:49:55] The team result wasn't memorable.

[00:49:56] I don't think, and my efforts weren't memorable.

[00:49:59] You were off the bench, yeah?

[00:50:00] Yeah.

[00:50:00] I played, I think I played eight minutes one game.

[00:50:03] Okay.

[00:50:03] Building to that point.

[00:50:05] What worked against me in my belief was, I actually got named about four weeks earlier

[00:50:10] in the City Origin team.

[00:50:12] Right.

[00:50:12] To play.

[00:50:14] And I trained for that week.

[00:50:16] I was training with the City Origin team.

[00:50:18] That was the first time I had ever met Benny Elias and the first time I had ever met all

[00:50:24] these players, right?

[00:50:25] They'd all met each other because they'd been in rep teams and they'd been in Australian

[00:50:29] school boys teams and they'd been on tours.

[00:50:31] Yeah.

[00:50:31] But they'd done everything together, all these bikes.

[00:50:34] Here's this young nine-year-old that's done nothing with them.

[00:50:38] And so I'm just, it's just, I'm just really starstruck.

[00:50:42] But I trained.

[00:50:43] Add to that, they found it hard to comprehend what Jack was actually trying to say because

[00:50:49] he talked in, you know, riddles.

[00:50:52] In his riddles, yeah.

[00:50:52] Yeah, but, so they found it a bit hard.

[00:50:54] So I was sort of a bit of an interpreter to be honest, but I trained great.

[00:50:57] But we played, so if I had played that game, I think it could have been, the whole Origin

[00:51:05] thing could have been more exciting.

[00:51:07] Why didn't you play?

[00:51:08] Because we played in a Wednesday night, Tuohy's Cup National Bank Challenge or something

[00:51:12] was against Illawarra.

[00:51:14] I got a cork on my leg.

[00:51:15] Oh, okay.

[00:51:16] And it blew up instantaneously.

[00:51:18] We were playing Illawarra whose manager was Bob Millwood.

[00:51:21] So Bob Millwood comes in after the game on a Wednesday night to see how I am and he

[00:51:26] looks at my leg and he said, mate, if you can't train tomorrow, we're going to have to rule

[00:51:30] you out because the game was Saturday.

[00:51:32] Right, right.

[00:51:32] I said, fair enough.

[00:51:33] I turn up on Thursday like it's the size of a brick and I'm ruled out.

[00:51:39] Before, I remember before I left, Gavin Miller said to me, he said, listen, go home and buy

[00:51:44] some washing crystals.

[00:51:46] You know, you buy them from the supermarket, you're a dollar pack.

[00:51:48] He said, and pack them, pack them all over the injury and strap it up.

[00:51:53] And he said, strap it up good and sleep in it overnight.

[00:51:56] Right.

[00:51:57] He said, but you've got to ensure that it's strapped up good because if it leaks, you'll

[00:52:00] wake up and your sheets will be rock hard.

[00:52:02] He said, so do that.

[00:52:04] And I did that for two nights.

[00:52:06] Yeah.

[00:52:07] And played against Newcastle on Sunday at Marathon Stadium.

[00:52:10] Okay.

[00:52:11] We just improved it out of sight.

[00:52:12] So I got an origin, a city origin jersey because I was there for the official photograph on

[00:52:17] the Wednesday morning, but I never got to wear it.

[00:52:19] Okay.

[00:52:20] And so you think if you'd played, you would have had more of a bonding experience with

[00:52:24] the guys?

[00:52:25] Yeah, the whole thing.

[00:52:25] Yeah.

[00:52:25] The whole thing.

[00:52:26] So, so going to origin, I probably wasn't ready.

[00:52:29] I use this as an example.

[00:52:31] We were staying in a hotel in Brisbane and I remember one, one of my trips in the elevator,

[00:52:37] I'm going down and from the fourth floor and it stopped at the third floor and I saw Mark

[00:52:45] Guyer, Peter Kelly and John Cartwright and they scared the shit out of me.

[00:52:50] And I'm going, and I thought, it was almost like I was trying to close the doors because

[00:52:54] I thought, my God.

[00:52:55] So you didn't know them socially at all.

[00:52:57] And they were my teammates for that game.

[00:52:59] Yeah.

[00:52:59] And I'm going, and I was overawed by them.

[00:53:01] Yeah.

[00:53:02] Okay.

[00:53:03] So consequently, you know, I just, I probably felt a fish out of water when I played.

[00:53:08] So, but it was, it was a unique experience.

[00:53:10] I don't tell anyone.

[00:53:12] Um, if you hadn't brought it up, I wouldn't have brought it up.

[00:53:15] Do you go to the reunions?

[00:53:16] I do.

[00:53:17] I do.

[00:53:17] Okay.

[00:53:18] Yeah.

[00:53:18] Um, took me about 15 years before I got the courage to go and just at the, you know, request

[00:53:26] of others.

[00:53:26] Come on, mate.

[00:53:27] Look, you did it.

[00:53:27] You did it.

[00:53:28] So the older I've gotten, the more I accept.

[00:53:31] Look, I wasn't a bad player.

[00:53:31] I don't think, Alan, the history of rugby league people looking back on your origin career

[00:53:34] going, what a disaster.

[00:53:36] No, no.

[00:53:37] I know it's a personal thing.

[00:53:38] I get that.

[00:53:38] Yeah.

[00:53:39] Yeah.

[00:53:39] Yeah.

[00:53:41] It's still, you know, probably eats away at me a little bit, but.

[00:53:45] Do you get amped up every origin year?

[00:53:47] You're like, you're into it.

[00:53:48] You love it.

[00:53:48] No, I'm Graham Wilson.

[00:53:51] It was just chill.

[00:53:52] Um.

[00:53:53] Was that like you, that was your whole career?

[00:53:55] You were chill?

[00:53:56] For, for whatever?

[00:53:57] Like prelim?

[00:53:58] Yeah.

[00:53:59] 88?

[00:54:00] Chill?

[00:54:00] Okay.

[00:54:00] Yeah.

[00:54:01] I've always been like that.

[00:54:03] 92, I was at the, the Bears.

[00:54:06] Yeah.

[00:54:06] And we ended up winning a grand final that year.

[00:54:09] 93, I was at the Bears.

[00:54:10] I ended up winning the reserve grade grand final again.

[00:54:13] Yeah.

[00:54:13] And then I go back to the Sharks 94.

[00:54:15] Yeah.

[00:54:16] And we won the grand final that year.

[00:54:17] So I won three in a row and I was captain for two of them.

[00:54:20] I think I was bestowed with that title just because of that chill, calm, calmness.

[00:54:27] Yeah.

[00:54:28] Okay.

[00:54:28] So we talked about 88 finals.

[00:54:29] We know what happened there.

[00:54:32] Going into 89, was there a confidence in the team that you could replicate that?

[00:54:37] Oh, yes.

[00:54:38] Is the answer.

[00:54:39] Because it's a very similar team, right?

[00:54:41] Yes.

[00:54:42] Yep.

[00:54:43] Yeah.

[00:54:43] There's no reason to say that we couldn't have achieved success.

[00:54:47] There was a few, there was a few changes and, but we managed, sometimes we just managed

[00:54:51] to find a way.

[00:54:53] We finished the year on equal fifth.

[00:54:56] So we played on Sunday and finished equal fifth.

[00:54:59] So it wasn't judged on for and against then.

[00:55:02] It was, you have to play a playoff game.

[00:55:04] Mm-hmm.

[00:55:05] The playoff game was against the Brisbane Broncos at Parramatta Stadium on Tuesday night.

[00:55:12] Yep.

[00:55:12] So we played the Sunday game, we play the Tuesday game and by winning that game, that

[00:55:19] entitled us to play Canberra on Saturday.

[00:55:23] On Saturday, yeah.

[00:55:23] Well, let's talk about the playoff for fifth.

[00:55:26] Yeah.

[00:55:26] One of the great games.

[00:55:28] Yeah.

[00:55:28] Again, because you're playing that origin Queensland team basically, if not half of the Australian

[00:55:34] team, they're heavy favourites.

[00:55:36] I remember that because of who they are.

[00:55:38] And it's at Parramatta Stadium, which is, you know, obviously very neutral, but full of

[00:55:43] Sharks fans on the Tuesday.

[00:55:45] So it just, it was, the whole thing was special.

[00:55:48] I remember watching it as a kid at home.

[00:55:51] What was the feeling going into that game?

[00:55:53] Like, was it like your grand final?

[00:55:55] As daunting as the Broncos were and you know, their aura, which we spoke about, there was

[00:55:59] always an excitement to play them, to test yourself.

[00:56:03] Yeah.

[00:56:03] My God, I look back at that team.

[00:56:05] They were a phenomenal team.

[00:56:07] Yeah.

[00:56:07] And it's amazing to be honest, of all the games that you play, how many times that one's

[00:56:13] on repeat on Fox, you know, legends games or classic games.

[00:56:17] Absolutely.

[00:56:18] And consequently, every time it is, my phone starts going nuts about it.

[00:56:22] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:56:23] So good.

[00:56:23] It's still so talked about.

[00:56:25] Yeah.

[00:56:25] Of all the games.

[00:56:26] Because it's the way that the team played.

[00:56:30] Like Brisbane weren't bad, but you guys were just lights out.

[00:56:32] We were hot.

[00:56:33] Like when I watched that game back, I think, well, why didn't they go all the way or why

[00:56:37] didn't they beat Canberra?

[00:56:37] I know there's reasons why, but amazing performance.

[00:56:40] Miller was lights out.

[00:56:41] Yeah.

[00:56:42] He was 10 out of 10 that night.

[00:56:44] But the whole team played well.

[00:56:46] Docker was great.

[00:56:46] You were great.

[00:56:48] We're jumping around a little bit here, Al, but you're a guy that played every position

[00:56:52] on the football field.

[00:56:54] And for our younger listeners, that is unheard of.

[00:56:57] Like it's ridiculous.

[00:56:58] Yeah.

[00:56:58] He went from fullback to prop and all the way in between.

[00:57:01] In this game, you're on the wing.

[00:57:03] How did you end up?

[00:57:04] And you're kind of known as a winger in some circles.

[00:57:08] So Sam, how many games did I play?

[00:57:10] You played 110.

[00:57:11] 110.

[00:57:12] How many did I play on the wing?

[00:57:13] I don't know.

[00:57:14] I believe it to be 19.

[00:57:17] Is that all?

[00:57:17] 19 or 11.

[00:57:18] Okay.

[00:57:19] Yeah.

[00:57:19] Something like that.

[00:57:20] Okay.

[00:57:20] I don't think it's over 20.

[00:57:21] But it was in that, at least one of those successful years at the club.

[00:57:25] Yeah.

[00:57:26] So what would happen is they would pick six forwards and me on the wing.

[00:57:30] And then when a forward went off at the 20 minute mark or the 30 minute for a rotation,

[00:57:34] I would just go into...

[00:57:35] You're just a natural footy player?

[00:57:37] You can play anywhere?

[00:57:38] I think I'm a learner.

[00:57:40] It's like having just spent the last 10 or 11 years in junior league coaching, 12 years professionally

[00:57:46] before that, is that I just, I find it amazing that, you know, you talk to a young kid,

[00:57:52] what do you play?

[00:57:53] Left second row.

[00:57:54] Yeah.

[00:57:55] Oh, why can't you play right?

[00:57:56] No, I like left.

[00:57:57] Well, I don't know.

[00:57:57] I said, well, mate, if you want to make the rep team, you want to be left second rower.

[00:58:02] And they sign a kid that's 20 kilos heavier than you and runs the hundred in four meters

[00:58:08] faster than you, you won't be left second rower.

[00:58:10] Yeah.

[00:58:11] Why don't you have right second rower in your kit bag?

[00:58:14] Because you might make it.

[00:58:15] For sure.

[00:58:15] You've got to be versatile.

[00:58:16] I just think as a kid, I grew up in the bush.

[00:58:20] There was nothing, there was nothing to do.

[00:58:23] You played cricket or footy or you watched footy.

[00:58:25] So I had a lot of favorite players and I just watched them all.

[00:58:28] I just watched them all.

[00:58:29] To be honest, I was intimidated by playing a lot of the positions and the intimidation

[00:58:35] also came by the fact that who I was playing.

[00:58:37] So in that year, I played halfback a couple of times.

[00:58:41] One of them was against Ricky Stewart at Bathurst in a midweek game.

[00:58:45] Yeah.

[00:58:45] I'm going up against Ricky Stewart.

[00:58:47] This is insane.

[00:58:48] I played halfback against Steve Mortimer at Belmore Oval.

[00:58:51] Why am I going, why?

[00:58:53] Why?

[00:58:54] But if Jack asks you to do it, you do it.

[00:58:57] Yeah.

[00:58:57] I can tell you that one day I got asked to play center and I went, which side?

[00:59:03] And they said Mel Meninga's side.

[00:59:06] Oh, I, yeah.

[00:59:07] And I just went, my God.

[00:59:09] As soon as you said that, I was thinking of centers.

[00:59:10] I went, I can't be Mel Meninga.

[00:59:12] He's still the hardest player I've ever had to tackle.

[00:59:14] Yeah.

[00:59:14] Because I'm a low tackler.

[00:59:15] Yeah.

[00:59:16] And his ass was the size of a bus and he'd just use it.

[00:59:21] He'd put the bump on you.

[00:59:22] Yeah.

[00:59:22] Chicka Ferguson was intimidating when I played against him on the wing.

[00:59:26] I played fullback at Redford Nova one day.

[00:59:29] Surprisingly, I had a great game.

[00:59:31] I don't know why it was so, like to make your debut as a fullback in first grade,

[00:59:37] NRL, you call it now, for the first time in your life.

[00:59:40] Wow.

[00:59:40] Yeah.

[00:59:42] But I played so good.

[00:59:44] So I don't know, I don't know what it was.

[00:59:46] Yeah.

[00:59:47] I played 5-8 against Terry Lamb one day as well.

[00:59:50] Yeah.

[00:59:51] It was scary.

[00:59:52] We beat Brisbane in the 89 playoff.

[00:59:54] We get the right to go play Canberra, SFS on a Saturday.

[00:59:58] Don't win.

[00:59:59] I'm guessing there were injuries going into that game, right?

[01:00:02] I think we were just tired.

[01:00:04] Tired?

[01:00:04] Exhausted.

[01:00:05] Yeah.

[01:00:06] You know, you've got to understand recovery methods weren't what they are today.

[01:00:10] Three games in six, seven days.

[01:00:13] It's a lot.

[01:00:14] We only trained two nights and one morning a week to play anyway.

[01:00:19] If we played on a Saturday, we only trained Tuesday, Thursday night really.

[01:00:23] Yeah.

[01:00:24] I think we were just exhausted, mate.

[01:00:25] So you continued at the club 1999-91.

[01:00:29] What led to you leaving at the end of 91?

[01:00:32] That wasn't my choice.

[01:00:34] The club didn't want to retain me.

[01:00:36] I didn't want to leave.

[01:00:39] Was there a big turnover or...?

[01:00:42] I think it was the same year Doc O left.

[01:00:44] Okay.

[01:00:44] Barry left.

[01:00:45] So that's...

[01:00:46] Yeah, okay.

[01:00:46] Yeah, so there's a bit of the DNA there.

[01:00:48] Yeah.

[01:00:49] And to be honest, I don't think my heart was ever in footy again after that.

[01:00:55] Obviously, I went back there in 94 but...

[01:00:57] Did you feel it coming or not?

[01:00:58] No, not really.

[01:00:59] Okay.

[01:01:00] Not really.

[01:01:00] It is what it is but...

[01:01:02] Yeah, I would have loved to have stayed there for ten years straight and just been part of it.

[01:01:07] The Sharks fans and the Shire adopted me as a 16-year-old.

[01:01:11] And I sort of...

[01:01:12] I adopted them, you know, as a home because I'd moved so many times just to settle down in one place.

[01:01:18] That's all I ever wanted to do.

[01:01:19] So, it was a shame.

[01:01:21] And that was Alan Fitzgibbon's last year as well.

[01:01:24] You end up back in 94 under John Lang.

[01:01:27] Yeah.

[01:01:28] What can you tell me about John Lang as a coach?

[01:01:30] Mate, rarely had a training session with him.

[01:01:33] Okay.

[01:01:34] Him and Richo were a deadly team.

[01:01:35] Yeah.

[01:01:35] Like, they were great for what they needed to do.

[01:01:37] And it's probably what the club needed at the time because, you know, the 89, 90 sort of...

[01:01:43] It was a decline in results from them.

[01:01:45] Yeah.

[01:01:46] They wouldn't have played playoffs.

[01:01:47] No.

[01:01:48] Until Johnny Lang got back there.

[01:01:50] Correct, yeah.

[01:01:50] So, he brought in a heap of young blokes.

[01:01:52] Yep.

[01:01:53] Heap of young blokes.

[01:01:55] But a few Queenslanders.

[01:01:56] Yeah, all the Queenslanders.

[01:01:57] So, Andrew Neve, Paul Green, Craig Greenhill, Chris McKenna.

[01:02:01] So, were you more of a depth signing kind of thing?

[01:02:03] I think I was a desperate signing mate.

[01:02:05] They were just happy to have me on their books.

[01:02:08] Right.

[01:02:08] I had some experience.

[01:02:09] Right.

[01:02:10] I virtually, like, I played for pittance.

[01:02:13] I literally paid for nothing.

[01:02:15] And that's the year you won reserve grade?

[01:02:17] Yeah.

[01:02:18] Okay.

[01:02:19] Which was a big deal.

[01:02:20] Yeah.

[01:02:21] Well, it was...

[01:02:22] For the club.

[01:02:22] It was a big deal for the club because we won the under-21s as well.

[01:02:25] Yeah.

[01:02:26] And so, if you look at the under-21s for that year, prior to the grand final that they

[01:02:32] played in, the squad that played the under-21s grand final, prior to the grand final, had played

[01:02:38] in 42 first grade games.

[01:02:41] And Adam Ritsom was a large part of that.

[01:02:44] He'd played about close to 20.

[01:02:46] Okay.

[01:02:46] But the rest of the other 16 had played not many first grade games.

[01:02:51] Yeah.

[01:02:52] From 95 onwards, that squad played 1,000 first grade games for Cronulla.

[01:02:57] So we're talking Peachy, Rogers...

[01:02:59] Over a thousand.

[01:02:59] Peachy, Rogers, Nick Graham, Sean Ryan.

[01:03:03] Yeah.

[01:03:03] Yeah.

[01:03:04] So many of them.

[01:03:05] Okay.

[01:03:05] So many of them.

[01:03:06] And so, what was it like for you to be the old pup, Linda Moran?

[01:03:09] Um, I probably, as I look back now, even at the Bears, when you're playing reserve grade,

[01:03:16] there's a bit of a mix of old and young.

[01:03:18] So when I got named captain for those sort of three years, I probably took it really serious.

[01:03:26] I took on the responsibility, oh, I've got to be the responsible one.

[01:03:30] And I've, which sort of was different to the three or four years that I had when I started my career,

[01:03:36] when I was just the, the prankster.

[01:03:39] Yeah.

[01:03:40] The, you know, nailing guys' gear bags to the bench seat with a, with a stapler and, and,

[01:03:46] you know, doing things to their car and hiding their cars.

[01:03:50] You know, I went, I went, I went from that.

[01:03:53] Yeah.

[01:03:53] Being good.

[01:03:54] And then to being, oh, you're captain now, you can't do that.

[01:03:58] You can't.

[01:03:59] Um, so I probably needed a bit of guidance here, but my theory was if I was going to

[01:04:03] play reserve grade, I was going to win it.

[01:04:05] Yeah.

[01:04:06] So.

[01:04:07] What do you remember about the grand final?

[01:04:09] Well, I do remember it was September 25, 1994, because my birthday's on September 25.

[01:04:16] Okay.

[01:04:16] So it wasn't my day.

[01:04:17] No one knew that.

[01:04:18] And it was hot.

[01:04:19] Yeah.

[01:04:19] So what I did know, having played the previous two grand finals, I knew that, uh, it was going

[01:04:25] to be hot.

[01:04:26] So what I did for the two.

[01:04:28] It's like a, what?

[01:04:29] One o'clock midday kickoff.

[01:04:31] Yeah.

[01:04:31] Yeah.

[01:04:32] Yeah.

[01:04:32] In late September.

[01:04:35] Yeah.

[01:04:35] I used to work in a, in a warehouse at Botany and I would spend my lunch hour.

[01:04:39] I would take a footy jersey to work and I would go up to Erskineville Oval and I would

[01:04:43] run laps at lunchtime.

[01:04:44] Okay.

[01:04:45] Cause it was the same kickoff time.

[01:04:46] Yep.

[01:04:47] For, for two weeks in my jersey.

[01:04:49] Just so I was acclimatized on grand final day.

[01:04:52] Wow.

[01:04:52] That helped.

[01:04:53] Um, they're the little things that, you know, it's just, you, you gotta do.

[01:04:57] Kids don't understand that.

[01:04:59] The other thing I do remember about the 99, 94 grand final is this.

[01:05:03] Two weeks prior to the grand final, we played Canterbury Bankstown in the major semifinal.

[01:05:11] Mm-hmm.

[01:05:12] Or late in the match, late in the second half, a guy named Steve Reardon played for Canterbury

[01:05:17] and I was coming in from the side and I was gonna hit him right in the ribs and he saw

[01:05:23] me coming and he raises his elbow and it hits me flush in the bottom lip, consequently splitting

[01:05:30] me open.

[01:05:31] My four bottom teeth all went in.

[01:05:33] I had, I had to go off.

[01:05:34] Malufi put 14 stitches in my mouth.

[01:05:37] The 14 stitches, so be it, you know.

[01:05:39] But the four teeth all pointing under your tongue, laying under your tongue was pretty.

[01:05:43] The thing about what it was, we actually had the club presentation that night.

[01:05:48] So I do remember I had soup, soup and soup that night at the presentation because I had

[01:05:55] 14 stitches.

[01:05:56] Now the other thing about that night was, one of the members of our team was late arriving.

[01:06:02] His name was Ben Lysart and he was a Western Australian junior.

[01:06:06] Right.

[01:06:06] He'd come over to play with the Sharks.

[01:06:08] He was a tremendous kid and a good footy player.

[01:06:10] He, he is late for the thing and it's getting on late in the night and then I got called out

[01:06:18] of the room and, and I said oh what's up and I was, I don't know who it was by, maybe Johnny

[01:06:36] and he went to, he went around, it was a black tie and he went around to borrow a suit and

[01:06:42] black tie and he was getting out of his car and it started to roll and he tried to stop

[01:06:48] it and he was pinned to a tree and, and passed away.

[01:06:52] Yeah.

[01:06:53] That night.

[01:06:54] So, we're at the presentation, you know, first grade celebrating and the two lower grades are

[01:07:00] going to be in the grand final in two weeks.

[01:07:02] So there's a bit of joy in the room.

[01:07:03] Yeah.

[01:07:04] And they said what do we do?

[01:07:05] And I said well, we wait till the end of the night.

[01:07:09] Yeah.

[01:07:10] We can't, we can't do it now, Lys.

[01:07:12] So, anyway, so we wait till the end of the night and, and then we have to tell all the

[01:07:16] boys.

[01:07:19] So, ironically we spent the next week not preparing for a grand final.

[01:07:27] We just couldn't.

[01:07:28] Yeah.

[01:07:28] So we spent the next week crying, consoling each other, just getting together, having a

[01:07:35] drink.

[01:07:36] Yep.

[01:07:36] And eventually a funeral and a wake and it was just horrible, horrible, horrible.

[01:07:42] In between that, I'm running to a surgical dentist and I'm, to have a boxers mouth guard

[01:07:50] fitted up and bottom lips so I can play the grand final.

[01:07:53] And it was just a horrible time.

[01:07:56] So, you know, you look back and the, the destruction of Benny's death, um, might've taken

[01:08:04] a lot of, you know, that emotional hype away that just calmed us down.

[01:08:09] Yeah.

[01:08:09] Yeah.

[01:08:10] And, and, and Benny had played both grades so it was the whole, it was the whole squad

[01:08:15] felt it.

[01:08:15] Yeah.

[01:08:15] And so we just celebrated our, um, 30th anniversary that, that day.

[01:08:20] Right.

[01:08:21] And we still to this day, we, um, we pay our respects to Ben.

[01:08:25] Yeah.

[01:08:26] I actually remember when you said that, the incident and yeah, that's, that's a lot.

[01:08:32] It's unusual.

[01:08:33] It's, um, it's really unusual.

[01:08:36] I still remember we, we got together in the sheds for the first time and we literally

[01:08:40] had to like a week and a half later and guys, we've got to go out and train.

[01:08:44] We've got to go out and have a run.

[01:08:45] Yeah.

[01:08:45] Um, I'd still be running around the oval in a Jersey, but I knew the others had sort

[01:08:50] of, they were not in any good way.

[01:08:53] We went around the room and everyone just got what they had to say off their chest.

[01:08:57] I don't know.

[01:08:58] What do you think Al?

[01:09:00] And I know that the large sentiment was, um, let's do it for Benny.

[01:09:05] Let's do it for Benny.

[01:09:06] And, and it came to me and I just looked, I respect that.

[01:09:10] I said, but I don't think we're going to do it for Benny.

[01:09:12] I think we've got to do it for ourselves.

[01:09:14] Yeah.

[01:09:14] And, and donate it and, you know, yeah, do it for, you know, do it for ourselves, but

[01:09:21] attribute it to Benny.

[01:09:23] Of course.

[01:09:23] Yeah.

[01:09:23] Cause my theory was at the 68th minute, when you have to get up off the ground and run 20

[01:09:29] meters to make a sackle, Ben's not there to, he's not going to be in your head then.

[01:09:33] It's got to be you.

[01:09:34] It's got to be us.

[01:09:35] It's got to be what we, we want to do.

[01:09:37] Yeah.

[01:09:37] What a special achievement given what you guys went through.

[01:09:40] Yeah.

[01:09:40] That's remarkable.

[01:09:41] The replay came up again recently at the reunion.

[01:09:44] Everyone, I get criticized by a few of the boys about my jubilation.

[01:09:49] It was like this, I give this, you know, I remember that I can see the photo and it

[01:09:53] was, you're on someone's shoulders maybe or something.

[01:09:55] Oh yeah.

[01:09:56] That was on the lap of honor.

[01:09:57] But when I, when they present me the trophy on the dais, I was a bit subdued and that's

[01:10:02] because I was literally going to bore my eyes out.

[01:10:04] Yeah.

[01:10:05] Like I just, I wasn't ready to talk, but I had to.

[01:10:10] Yeah.

[01:10:10] Yeah.

[01:10:10] So that was my job as a captain.

[01:10:13] So I had to do it, but I was literally ready to cry.

[01:10:16] Yeah.

[01:10:17] In a shocking move to move to lighter times, the next year you go to the enemy.

[01:10:23] Yes.

[01:10:24] Tell us about that.

[01:10:25] Funnily enough, at the end of 93, when I was at the Bears, they told me that they couldn't

[01:10:31] re-sign me because they signed a, a young bloke by the name of Jason Taylor and he had

[01:10:36] taken up a lot of the money.

[01:10:39] And, but they wanted me to join the coaching staff.

[01:10:42] Oh.

[01:10:42] They wanted me to retire at 25 or six.

[01:10:46] Right.

[01:10:47] And join the coaching staff.

[01:10:48] And I went, well, really?

[01:10:50] So I went and had a few, chat with a few guys.

[01:10:53] It was David Boyle who was, played for the South was one of them.

[01:10:56] I don't know why I ran into David, but he was a great guy and he said, mate, you're too

[01:10:59] young to retire.

[01:11:00] Keep playing.

[01:11:01] Yeah.

[01:11:01] So I went to Cronulla in 94.

[01:11:03] Yeah.

[01:11:03] You know, I just played for playing sake, not for money's sake, just for playing sake.

[01:11:06] Yeah.

[01:11:07] And then at the end of 94, Cronulla didn't want me, so that's fine.

[01:11:10] I was a reserve grader, did my job.

[01:11:12] We won it, did my job.

[01:11:14] They didn't want me.

[01:11:14] So what do you do?

[01:11:16] Oh, do I retire now?

[01:11:18] No.

[01:11:18] And then St. George contacted me and said, look, would you come over here?

[01:11:22] Would you consider coming over here?

[01:11:23] And then a few of the-

[01:11:24] So that's Brian Smith.

[01:11:25] Yeah.

[01:11:25] A few of the boys were.

[01:11:27] Right.

[01:11:27] A few of the boys were.

[01:11:28] Chris Quinns and Kurt Wrigley's and there was a couple of guys.

[01:11:31] So I thought, yeah, and I knew a lot of the Dragons anyway, because they all lived in

[01:11:34] the Shire.

[01:11:34] Yeah.

[01:11:35] And I hung out on the beach with them and we went to North East together.

[01:11:38] And so I went over there.

[01:11:40] I met this great young bloke, a bunch of young blokes.

[01:11:44] And funnily enough, I get captain again.

[01:11:46] So I sort of try to be the responsible one.

[01:11:48] So was there no talk of you playing in a top grade?

[01:11:52] No, they signed me to-

[01:11:53] Oh, they did?

[01:11:53] Yeah, mate, when you sign, you sign and they're going to pick the best 17 every week.

[01:11:57] Okay.

[01:11:57] Yeah.

[01:11:58] So again, leaving Cronulla in 91, I was never 100% passionate about it.

[01:12:04] And so 95, I start playing with every intention to do my best.

[01:12:09] You know, there were some great young kids there and stuff.

[01:12:11] And you just, I just knew, wow, this-

[01:12:13] And St. George were a step above Cronulla in their training.

[01:12:17] Yeah.

[01:12:17] They were training in the mornings, lunches and stuff.

[01:12:20] Right.

[01:12:20] Despite the fact that it wasn't full time then.

[01:12:22] Yeah.

[01:12:22] And I went, wow, this is another step above.

[01:12:24] And I couldn't do that because I had to work.

[01:12:27] So I had a job.

[01:12:28] And so I would try and go to work in the morning or, sorry, gym in the morning and then come

[01:12:34] back five, six o'clock at night and train, whatever.

[01:12:36] Or otherwise I just had to do it all late at night after work.

[01:12:40] But the other boys were just training.

[01:12:42] The Lance Thompsons and all that were just training during the day and stuff.

[01:12:45] Yeah.

[01:12:45] So they were very, it was fortunate for them.

[01:12:47] But, so I went there, two things happened.

[01:12:50] I did my medial ligament three times in one season.

[01:12:53] Ugh.

[01:12:53] Still to this day, it's not the same.

[01:12:56] And the other thing that worried me Sam was, I started to get knocked out.

[01:13:00] Okay.

[01:13:01] I started to get knocked out a lot.

[01:13:03] Like how, when you say a lot like?

[01:13:05] In my last two seasons of footy, I was knocked out eight times.

[01:13:13] Okay.

[01:13:13] That's a lot.

[01:13:14] Yeah.

[01:13:15] So that worried me.

[01:13:16] Yep.

[01:13:17] It was just, I went to England in 96 and I got knocked out three Sundays in a row.

[01:13:23] So back then there was no protocols.

[01:13:25] You got knocked out one Sunday, you just recovered and played next week.

[01:13:28] Was it just bad luck?

[01:13:29] It was the fact that I loved to tackle.

[01:13:32] Oh, you were doing a tackle.

[01:13:33] Yeah, I was always, it was predominantly, it was always tackle.

[01:13:36] Gotcha.

[01:13:36] Okay, okay, gotcha.

[01:13:37] Yeah, yeah.

[01:13:37] It's not running the ball.

[01:13:38] It's getting tackled.

[01:13:39] Oh, it was a couple, there's a couple, Stuart Field and hit me in England once.

[01:13:44] That wasn't bad luck.

[01:13:46] Yeah.

[01:13:47] So it plays on your mind.

[01:13:48] Yeah.

[01:13:48] How easy it starts to happen, three Sundays in a row.

[01:13:51] Yeah.

[01:13:52] So that was happening.

[01:13:55] I wasn't at the Sharks anymore.

[01:13:56] So after Dragons you went to England.

[01:13:58] Yeah, I went over actually, I went over to do a Contiki tour.

[01:14:03] I thought, I'm done with footy and I pack a massive suitcase and I pack my bags and I'm

[01:14:09] going to go to England and I'm going to do a three month Contiki tour to make up for

[01:14:14] all the weekends over the last ten years that I've missed out where all my school friends

[01:14:18] travelled Europe and went everywhere and stuff.

[01:14:20] Yeah.

[01:14:20] Because you've got to sacrifice all that.

[01:14:22] Yeah.

[01:14:22] And you've got to sacrifice snow skiing and bungee jumping.

[01:14:25] You've got to sacrifice all that in your contract.

[01:14:28] So I went to England with this big bag, which I had to take a few kilos out.

[01:14:32] It was so heavy at the airport.

[01:14:33] And I get to England and I go and see a mate of mine, Tony Ray and Adrian Toole who were

[01:14:37] at North Sydney.

[01:14:38] And I'm just bunkering down with them for a bit.

[01:14:41] And I ring Brian Smith just to say g'day because he was at Bradford.

[01:14:44] I was Huddersfield.

[01:14:45] It's 20 minutes down the road.

[01:14:46] I said, mate, I wouldn't mind coming to a match.

[01:14:47] Oddsville Stadium.

[01:14:48] I want to see it, you know, in its glory.

[01:14:50] So we go over there and he said, well, yeah, he got me tickets.

[01:14:53] And lo and behold, he said, where are you sitting?

[01:14:56] I said, oh, down here.

[01:14:57] And he said, ah, come up in the coach's box.

[01:14:59] So I went up in the coach's box.

[01:15:00] They did an interchange.

[01:15:02] And I just watch games.

[01:15:04] I'm very analytical and stuff.

[01:15:05] I watch off the ball a lot.

[01:15:07] Yeah.

[01:15:07] They did an interchange.

[01:15:09] They were going to put the, sorry, it was a blood bin.

[01:15:11] Right.

[01:15:11] They did what they thought was a blood bin.

[01:15:13] And then they're going to put him back on.

[01:15:15] And they're holding up the card.

[01:15:16] And I said, hey, it's not my place to talk here, Brian, because he's got his three assistants

[01:15:21] and stats got with me.

[01:15:22] It's not my place to talk.

[01:15:23] But, mate, the touch judge official didn't hold up the blood bin card.

[01:15:27] He held up an interchange card.

[01:15:28] I'll be checking that because you'll get dutted an interchange.

[01:15:31] Yeah.

[01:15:32] So he radios down and says, hey, check that.

[01:15:35] And it came back.

[01:15:36] Yeah, I was right.

[01:15:37] And he turned around and stared at me.

[01:15:39] And he sort of said, and anyway, at the end of the game, he said, what are you doing here

[01:15:42] anyway?

[01:15:43] I said, I'm going to do a Contiki tour.

[01:15:45] He said, mate, I've got a spot in my quota.

[01:15:49] They were allowed five Aussies.

[01:15:50] Yeah.

[01:15:51] And he said, I've got a spot until Graham Bradley gets here at Christmas.

[01:15:54] Do you want a game?

[01:15:56] Well, yeah, okay.

[01:15:57] So I turned up on Tuesday and started.

[01:15:58] And what team was it?

[01:15:59] Bradford.

[01:16:00] Bradford.

[01:16:00] Yeah, they'd just gone from Bradford Northern to Bradford.

[01:16:02] It was the first, sorry, that was the last winter comp.

[01:16:05] Okay.

[01:16:05] So I played for them.

[01:16:07] And then when that finished, I thought I'll do that Contiki tour now.

[01:16:11] And Huddersfield rang me up and said, oh, would you like to come and have a game for us?

[01:16:16] We're here, you're a free agent.

[01:16:17] I said, yeah, yeah.

[01:16:18] Yeah, I'll be interested.

[01:16:20] Can you have a trial game on New Year's Day?

[01:16:23] I said, no, mate, the knee won't be ready by New Year's Day.

[01:16:27] Because I'd booked a ticket to go to London to a famous place called the church and celebrate.

[01:16:32] And I said, oh, the knee's no good.

[01:16:34] I said, yeah, okay, we'll sign you anyway.

[01:16:37] So I played a season there and I did.

[01:16:39] I got knocked out a bit.

[01:16:41] I ended up touring Europe at the end of the season.

[01:16:46] I come back, I ring the Bears when I get back.

[01:16:49] I said, you know that coaching position that you offered me at the end of 1993,

[01:16:53] as it was now the end of 96.

[01:16:55] I said, I'd be interested if anything comes available.

[01:16:59] Can you let me know?

[01:17:00] And they said, yeah, fair enough.

[01:17:03] Come and see us on Monday.

[01:17:04] I go and see them on Monday.

[01:17:05] It's the Monday after the Melbourne Cup.

[01:17:07] And they said, look, we don't have a position available, but we're going to make one.

[01:17:13] We're going to make one for you.

[01:17:14] I said, okay, yeah, yeah, great.

[01:17:16] Yeah, I appreciate it.

[01:17:18] Can you start on January the 4th?

[01:17:22] I said, absolutely.

[01:17:23] I said, I've got absolutely nothing to do until January the 4th.

[01:17:27] Do you mind if I come in every day anyway?

[01:17:30] I'll just learn.

[01:17:31] I'll just learn for three months.

[01:17:33] Is Peter Lewis still the coach?

[01:17:35] Steve Martin was the coach.

[01:17:36] Steve Martin?

[01:17:36] Yeah.

[01:17:37] I'll just learn for three months.

[01:17:41] And they went, yeah, you're right.

[01:17:42] Start Monday.

[01:17:43] So I did.

[01:17:44] I started there and worked there for a year.

[01:17:46] Met some great people and just...

[01:17:48] And so you're an assistant coach?

[01:17:50] I was an assistant everything.

[01:17:51] Assistant coach, but my game day responsibility was I ran the messages,

[01:17:56] the water and the messages for all three grades.

[01:17:59] And my theory was if you're going to do it, you do it good.

[01:18:02] Yeah.

[01:18:02] And so I used to train hard for it and run all three grades.

[01:18:06] And at the end of that season, this is how I got into coaching.

[01:18:10] I was just...

[01:18:10] It was sort of going places as a skills coach is what I was saying.

[01:18:14] Right.

[01:18:14] I was going places and then they put an offer.

[01:18:17] They said, look, we want to retain you for next year.

[01:18:19] Here's your offer.

[01:18:21] And I said, oh, I thought it was a bit light on.

[01:18:23] And this is things that I've now learned about, you know, leadership and culture and business.

[01:18:31] They said, here's your offer.

[01:18:32] Take it or leave it.

[01:18:33] I went, oh, it's a bit light.

[01:18:36] And they went, because like I live in Cronulla, I'm driving over it.

[01:18:39] No car.

[01:18:40] It's a lot of petrol.

[01:18:41] Yeah.

[01:18:41] So I'm driving.

[01:18:42] They said, take it home, think about it over the weekend.

[01:18:44] I'm driving home and I don't know how this is the gods of rugby league.

[01:18:49] I don't know.

[01:18:49] I'm driving home and Brian Smith rings me because he's at Parramatta now.

[01:18:55] Yeah.

[01:18:55] He's come back from Bradford and he's at Parramatta.

[01:18:57] And he said, Wils, what are you doing next year?

[01:19:00] I said, you would not believe it.

[01:19:02] 45 minutes ago, I was just offered a contract to stay at the Bears.

[01:19:05] Yeah.

[01:19:06] And he said, well, would you consider coming to the Eels?

[01:19:09] I said, yeah, I would.

[01:19:11] Absolutely.

[01:19:12] And he said, what would it take to get you here?

[01:19:15] Now there's the difference, Sam.

[01:19:16] Yeah.

[01:19:16] Take it all the easy off it, take it or leave it.

[01:19:18] What would it take to get you here?

[01:19:20] Yeah, nice.

[01:19:21] And I went, wow, that's a different approach.

[01:19:22] Yeah.

[01:19:23] That's like, you can sense, well, they care about this.

[01:19:25] Now I've forgotten as your number one fan, all about this Parramatta coaching situation.

[01:19:31] Yeah.

[01:19:31] But now it's coming back to me.

[01:19:32] So keep going.

[01:19:33] Do you want to go with it?

[01:19:33] Yeah.

[01:19:34] I told him what it would take.

[01:19:36] And he said, mate, can you give me 48 hours?

[01:19:39] He said, I'm going to have to sack a bloke to make it happen.

[01:19:42] And I said, yeah, okay.

[01:19:44] I give him the 48 hours.

[01:19:45] I'm driving back to Norths.

[01:19:47] And he rings me and says, mate, we're on.

[01:19:49] I said, done.

[01:19:50] He said, do you want me to fax you something?

[01:19:54] Do you want me to find you?

[01:19:54] I said, mate, your word's good.

[01:19:57] I trust you.

[01:19:58] I said, because I'm going in, I'm going to get to work right now and resign.

[01:20:01] Right.

[01:20:02] And forego the offer.

[01:20:04] He said, do you want proof?

[01:20:05] I can ring him.

[01:20:06] And I said, no.

[01:20:07] So I just went in and told him, I said, look, the offer will take or leave it.

[01:20:11] And they told me I was making a big mistake.

[01:20:13] And I went to Parramatta, Sam, and it was seven great years.

[01:20:17] Yeah.

[01:20:17] I loved it.

[01:20:18] Seven years.

[01:20:19] All under Brian Smith?

[01:20:20] All under Brian Smith.

[01:20:21] So what years was it?

[01:20:23] Like 90?

[01:20:24] 98 to 2004.

[01:20:26] Okay.

[01:20:27] In those.

[01:20:27] So you were there in the 01 grand final?

[01:20:29] Correct.

[01:20:30] I was running the water for that.

[01:20:31] I was the run.

[01:20:32] Right.

[01:20:32] I ran for years and years and years and years.

[01:20:35] Okay.

[01:20:35] So if we go back and watch that, we'll see you running around.

[01:20:37] Yeah.

[01:20:37] Yellow shirt.

[01:20:38] Yellow shirt it was.

[01:20:40] You won't see me because I didn't linger.

[01:20:43] My theory was if you ran out there fast enough and got back, you could do two messages in one

[01:20:48] set and not one.

[01:20:49] So I could run out, buy three, come back.

[01:20:51] He'd give me another one.

[01:20:52] Trust me.

[01:20:53] And then back and go.

[01:20:54] Let's just go there.

[01:20:55] Like 01 grand final.

[01:20:57] Most, well, our older listeners know what happened.

[01:21:00] So Parramatta red hot team that year, like breaking records.

[01:21:03] Yeah.

[01:21:03] Broke the offensive record and the defensive record.

[01:21:07] Yeah.

[01:21:07] I was a defensive coordinator, which didn't show up on grand final day.

[01:21:12] Pretty good year.

[01:21:13] Yeah.

[01:21:13] So you play Newcastle with Andrew Johns.

[01:21:17] They go out to, I mean, do you know what the halftime score was?

[01:21:20] I don't want to bring up old wounds, but four maybe.

[01:21:23] They were in the twenties and we were maybe one.

[01:21:27] Yeah.

[01:21:27] So it was like 24 to four or something crazy.

[01:21:29] Yeah.

[01:21:29] Something that no one saw coming.

[01:21:31] No one.

[01:21:31] But then the second half, Parramatta comes back.

[01:21:34] Yeah.

[01:21:34] And goes super close.

[01:21:36] Yes.

[01:21:36] So it was a very odd game to this day.

[01:21:39] It's like one of the weirder grand finals.

[01:21:40] Yeah.

[01:21:40] And the theory is a few more minutes, well, maybe you get them.

[01:21:43] Correct.

[01:21:44] The second half was the Parramatta that played all year.

[01:21:46] Yes.

[01:21:48] Is it?

[01:21:48] I mean, you guys must've spoken about it a thousand times, but is there a theory on

[01:21:52] what happened?

[01:21:52] Was it stage fright or?

[01:21:54] Well, that's probably got to come into it.

[01:21:56] I think.

[01:21:57] Yeah.

[01:21:57] You know, if we were overawed, I do think if the game went a little longer.

[01:22:01] Now, some of our, some of our elder players probably were, you know, overawed maybe the

[01:22:09] word.

[01:22:09] Sure.

[01:22:10] Our youngsters, I don't think, they just wanted to rip in, you know.

[01:22:14] Yeah.

[01:22:15] We had a great team.

[01:22:16] Andrew Johns did a tremendous job on their game plan.

[01:22:20] They targeted the individuals that they want.

[01:22:22] They knew where they wanted to get the ball, who these spots were and where they were.

[01:22:25] And they did it fantastic.

[01:22:26] And then the second half, we were just, you know, we came alive.

[01:22:29] So you're there to 07, you said?

[01:22:31] No, 04.

[01:22:32] 04.

[01:22:33] 04.

[01:22:33] 04.

[01:23:03] hours were really long so you've got people don't understand i virtually work seven days a week

[01:23:09] so to give you an example i would in addition to doing a defense previews reviews assessment

[01:23:16] um i would also be in charge of the the it because back then we we didn't have all the um streaming

[01:23:25] statistical analysis that you do now and live live video um we would play a game at 7 30 we

[01:23:32] play till nine we go back do the sheds um i would run to the coaching office i'd put in seven video

[01:23:39] cassettes and double tapes and stuff and games and queue it up and then be downloading and stuff

[01:23:44] i'd go over to the pub i'd have two beers i'd go back to the office to make sure that they hadn't

[01:23:49] broken down stuff whatever and then so you were only you were only a couple of years off

[01:23:54] that not being your problem as someone in that business now i can tell you yeah like it was super

[01:24:00] close like probably the year you left yeah they like nreal stats was there yeah yeah it started

[01:24:06] to come in big and i can't imagine that job that you were doing we had our own system so sure they

[01:24:11] have quantity stats right yeah but as a coach we do quality stats sure all right so um the termination

[01:24:18] for a missed tackle is if you didn't put a hand on him i don't know if you don't put a hand on him

[01:24:23] it's not a missed tackle but if i'm a coach and i'm going he has gone in on his left shoulder when

[01:24:31] he should have gone out on his right shoulder and so i i would judge that a missed tackle because it

[01:24:36] was his responsibility yeah but but because he went in and made that one it was just a bad read yeah um

[01:24:41] so these are all the things yeah the difference we were very good we were at the forefront yeah at

[01:24:47] that time and um so i would sleep in my office all night wow and have make sure everything was

[01:24:52] was so when the three coaches worked in at seven o'clock next morning to start work i had all their

[01:24:57] it ready and then we would did you crash or did you keep working i would crash i i'd had a pillow and a

[01:25:05] and a blanket in my office in my credenza next to my desk and a heap of baked beans tuna and sardines

[01:25:13] and stuff are you a single man at this point uh no i was married so well sorry to start with i was

[01:25:17] single and then as towards the back end is why i quit i was tired we would review the game we would

[01:25:23] review a game now i would only watch defense i would start at 7am and i would watch i would fast

[01:25:28] forward during the offense yeah i would only watch the defense yeah and i would watch it from

[01:25:33] what we call freckle cam is the tv view i would watch it from eagle cam yeah end on view so three

[01:25:38] views i'm watching the game and watching every tackle repetitively and that would take me the best

[01:25:43] part of six hours yeah just to do defense two o'clock a day i could go home and be back at work

[01:25:49] at seven the next time and so it got to a stage where that's brutal i started work at um you know

[01:25:54] 9am at parramatta but i would just leave home at six or five every morning yeah get out there

[01:25:59] i got to a stage in 2004 i had a son god bless him he's the best thing in my life now 22 back then he was

[01:26:07] like he was 15 months old yeah uh 15 months yeah he's just 18 months he never slept a night through

[01:26:15] until he was 25 months old like two years of just crying it's great and it i understand now why they

[01:26:24] use sleep deprivation in torture chambers and in guantanamo bay because i went through it yeah and it

[01:26:29] was insanely bad you just get grumpy and tired and uh it built up i remember one day my son started

[01:26:35] crying at 10 past one in the morning and i said if he's still going if he's still going at four

[01:26:41] i'm going to work yeah and um he was so i got up got dressed because i drove to parramatta and i

[01:26:47] got there just before 4am and kicks nightclub in the lease club shut at four so i'm driving

[01:26:51] into work and they're all walking out and i'm dodging the vomiting patron and i remember um putting

[01:26:58] my key code in the alarm and my phone rings ellen ellen someone use your key code at the

[01:27:05] at the office i said yeah it's me mate he said no i mean at work i'm talking about you i said mate

[01:27:10] i'm here come over have a look and so he came over at 4 30 a.m and here i am doing my stats and stuff

[01:27:17] okay so people don't understand mate it's it's 24 7. i've gotten to know craig he's given a little bit

[01:27:22] in the past year and um yeah some of the hours he pulls i kind of had some idea but it's yeah but it's

[01:27:29] an insane job and craig's very good he knows yeah the good coaches know when to switch off and how

[01:27:35] to switch off sure craig as i understand it's a probably a black belt yes in uh jujitsu but that's

[01:27:43] his meditation and rest and relaxation mine's golf mine was golf yeah just four hours out there

[01:27:49] albeit i'm too competitive because that's what we what we are um i just that was my that was my

[01:27:56] rescue so what did you do after the eels so after the eels i didn't have anywhere to go i didn't have

[01:28:02] anything to do and prior prior to me quitting brian smith was amazed he said where are you going who i

[01:28:10] said i'm going nowhere i just i just need a rest i don't know but prior to that i had come up with an

[01:28:16] idea all right let's go out let's go nrl to use as an advertising slogan so one day to parramatta

[01:28:23] driving out to parramatta on king george's road on the corner of king george's road and canterbury road

[01:28:27] and this person came on the radio and was trying to justify the support of their team and they were

[01:28:36] raving on and and they they they gave the paramatta eels a serve i don't know why i'm just talking to

[01:28:42] myself it's 6 30 in the morning on a sunday morning and i said there's nothing wrong with the

[01:28:46] paramatta eels and i just came up i said that's because that's my team right and i don't know why i said

[01:28:52] it but i did and i went wow and i love music like i'm a music freak i know the moment i said that's

[01:28:59] my team what's my team just jumped in um because you're a big hoodoo gurus i was a big hoodoo gurus

[01:29:05] fan and i knew the hoodoo gurus so we'll go back there so 1980 1987 1987 dave faulkner sorry is

[01:29:12] walking into the ground at shark park seen watson our big winger at the time saw him and said hey

[01:29:18] you're that bloke from the hoodoo gurus what are you doing he said i'm watching the footy i've got to

[01:29:22] this is my team now and he said well where are you sitting no you come sit with us so he drags him

[01:29:27] through the tunnel and puts him in the players dugout so in the old dugout in the yeah yeah correct so

[01:29:33] this was 87 so i'm sitting there because what would happen is if you're playing first grade you would

[01:29:39] you would go and be there for the start of reserve grade you'd watch half a game and then for the second

[01:29:44] half you go in and get ready because of my sudden you know rise i got there for the start of under 23s

[01:29:52] watch them as well because they were still my mates you know right right i played with them

[01:29:57] and so anyways seen watson sits this place next to me and he's back then he got the lung hair and

[01:30:02] stuff and i said g'day mate how are you yeah alan yeah dave how you are oh yeah yeah who the

[01:30:08] gurus yeah yeah i sort of knew he was but i downplayed it because i'd seen him live at uh

[01:30:13] carrying bar bizzos year before we just started talking i'm drilling him about music like i know

[01:30:21] i'm talking away talking to my feet and he's asking about footy it was like he was footy i was

[01:30:26] music and it was the complete opposite of what we actually were yeah uh and we just literally hit

[01:30:31] it off like just our music he knew he's an encyclopedia yeah and i just loved it you know we talked

[01:30:37] about whirl it's a jukeboxes and stuff so we became mates from then in fact my first ever jersey my

[01:30:43] 1986 jersey number 34 i think it was um i gave it to him as a gift because he he uh did something for

[01:30:50] me to help a mate out yeah so he has that so when this incident when i say that's my team

[01:30:57] i thought wow so i just i got to work and i just i just got the lyrics i got the lyrics of um this is

[01:31:05] on the way to paramatta training yeah uh coaching yeah so i get the lyrics of the song and i'm just

[01:31:10] i start crossing that out and moving that and saying that and i sort of i sort of i rewrote it just to

[01:31:18] be a footy song i showed there's a girl named trish cruise who worked with us she's now with uh the

[01:31:23] swifts netball australia i ran it by her she was like pr marketing and stuff and she loved it said

[01:31:30] so good i went on okay what do you do with it oh don't know anyway two weeks later she goes to a

[01:31:38] wedding and she's on a table sitting next to malcolm node who was the chairman of news limited at the

[01:31:43] time he ran rugby league yeah and she said to him malcolm um what's your advertising slogan for next year

[01:31:51] she said oh you wouldn't believe we haven't really got one to be honest and she said al wilson's got an

[01:31:56] idea you should talk to him i don't know if she gave him a brief rundown or she said but it's really

[01:32:01] good the following week i'm driving around sydney somewhere and i get this phone call from

[01:32:06] mr wilson i'm the uh personal assistant of mr malcolm node from news limited mr malcolm no would like a visit

[01:32:12] uh would like a meeting with you in his office like next week yeah yeah i go in you know his office was

[01:32:18] the size of the crinola dressing chairs and massive beautiful views i'm like wow and the night before

[01:32:24] i thought oh i better do some research as into what they're actually using now and you know what

[01:32:29] the current one is because i didn't really know anyway um he said to me so alan i um here you've got

[01:32:36] an idea for the nrl advertising campaign i said oh yeah i do yes i do melvin he said can i ask you a

[01:32:45] question do you know what our current advertising thing is knowing that i was coming here today i

[01:32:52] actually did my research to find out because at this time yesterday i wouldn't have known but i do now

[01:32:56] yeah and i i repeated it i said i said can you tell me what that means like and i said malcolm can

[01:33:03] i ask you a question and he said yeah oh i just said who's buying that like yeah right what does it

[01:33:10] mean well what's the premise behind it yeah i don't get it and he said uh and he said what's your idea

[01:33:17] so i told him and he just sat there and said wow very impressed he said i want you to go and see

[01:33:23] david gallop so then i have to have a meeting with david gallop at the nrl head office i go in there

[01:33:29] and david when you're talking to david david's a barrister by trade so you you just he's a lovely man

[01:33:34] lovely guy and when you're talking to him though it's like you feel like you mean he's going to cross

[01:33:39] examine you like because he's a barrister he just sits there and you know he's taking everything

[01:33:43] in and he's hearing everything but he doesn't give you any feedback to suggest it he said mate we love

[01:33:47] it i really like it he said but the trouble is i've just signed off on a two or three million

[01:33:53] dollar campaign yesterday so we're gonna have to sit on it for 12 months or something yeah no worries

[01:33:59] eventually the season goes by and i get asked to go to fox studios to meet brian walsh who virtually

[01:34:05] runs marketing for rugby league yes you would know him well yeah so i go into an office with brian

[01:34:10] walsh and paul kind and they say so tell us about this idea so i've got i've got a cd oh so when i was

[01:34:17] in the in the waiting room waiting to go in for my appointment at four which ended up being six

[01:34:22] there's four guys sitting over there and there's four guys over there and there's three guys walk out

[01:34:27] and then that group walks in and i'm sitting there and they walk out and then that group walks in

[01:34:32] and they've all got their art boards and stuff oh i gotcha yeah and anyway he said mate i walked in

[01:34:38] he said look very sorry for the wait i apologize it took so long i said yeah it's all right no worries

[01:34:43] he said mate tell me about your camp i gave him i had a cd and the lyrics of the words that i'd reread

[01:34:49] handed it over and said and he said mate can you sing it for us i said no chance anyway we played

[01:34:55] this and got them to you know read through it and he said well look here's the story we love it

[01:35:02] and we want it he said all those guys you saw out there we've had eight advertising agencies in here

[01:35:08] today all pitching their ideas to us he said but we like yours yeah but one of them's going to have

[01:35:14] to produce it ah so so we're going with yours but we're going to have to work with one of them so we'll

[01:35:21] select which one we like from then on it's just sort of escalated and then at what point does uh

[01:35:27] faulkner and the boys get involved i'd actually rung dave up to ask him for permission to do this

[01:35:31] yeah and he'd had a he'd had dealings with the marketing department at the nrl prior and

[01:35:38] and didn't it didn't work out well and so he had no expectations mate you do whatever you want

[01:35:44] he said they don't know what they're doing yeah i said mate do you mind i'm going to see

[01:35:48] malcolm no this is growing like do you mind if i do this yeah he said yeah if you like um when brian

[01:35:54] walsh said yeah we're in i ring davis said dave you tell me now it's on he said what so yeah it's all

[01:36:01] right so i sent him the lyrics i said you you gotta because you're gonna sing this so he he changed a

[01:36:07] few of the lyrics and wrote it the way he's gonna see it they were totally cool with redoing it yes okay

[01:36:13] yeah so probably because of our relationship the other thing about it was the hoodoo gurus at that

[01:36:20] time had broken up oh they had disbanded they had a few issues and stuff whatever they'd broken up

[01:36:26] when this snowballed wow we've got to get back together and end up playing so what was a 2004

[01:36:34] grand final appearance by the hoodoo gurus in 2024 they've just done a sold out show of the us 26 shows

[01:36:42] yeah well 21 shows in 26 nights so from being disbanded 20 years later they're still playing

[01:36:49] you brought them back together well i'm not going to say that but um dave sort of pays some credit to

[01:36:55] the fact it might have happened anyway like um they just needed a break maybe at the time and for

[01:37:01] anyone who likes to do they're just about to go on an australian tour yes starting in next two weeks

[01:37:06] yes three weeks mate it's sold out they're being on 40 40 years now i mean that they've never not

[01:37:12] been a great live band never yeah like you know what you're gonna get his his vocal is still

[01:37:19] outstanding i had a mate who saw them in la maybe two weeks ago and he said it was unbelievable yeah

[01:37:24] probably at the l ray yes yeah we've got two more things to talk about al let's talk about music and

[01:37:32] we'll end up with grand final stuff what else floats your boat i'm sensing you're a big australian music

[01:37:37] guy so i i have a belief that music is the soundtrack of your life everyone can remember songs of an era

[01:37:44] i think people who can write songs songwriters you know they're lyrical genius don walker neil finn

[01:37:52] dave faulkner paul kelly like that's talent yep the thing about their talent is my talent was good when

[01:38:00] i was 21 it's no good when you're 41 so day 61 and he's talent still as good as ever right you can

[01:38:06] still do it forever so yeah what floats my boat i'm so eclectic raised on bill hayley in the comments

[01:38:14] shirley bassy johnny horton um then growing up in pubs at a time when pubs were closed on sundays i knew

[01:38:23] every 100 of the songs that was in the jukebox i could tell you that doctor doctor by robert palmer was

[01:38:29] e6 and i guess yeah i just i love that right um so in terms of what i'm so eclectic yeah it would

[01:38:36] amaze you if you were to go through my playlist and um australian wise like cold chisel australian crawl

[01:38:44] hoodie gurus yeah paul kelly and the color girls as it was then yeah messengers whatever crowded house

[01:38:50] that was great country a lot of people countries had a big resurgence i go back to you know dwight

[01:38:57] yokum and yeah and johnny horton's and then i got into creole music in new orleans so i love cajun music

[01:39:04] yeah buckwheat zydeco's put with my pick there and i've been over there and seen bands live yeah i like

[01:39:10] jazz funk it is so much i've just come from the gym my my playlist this morning was uh fat freddie's drop

[01:39:17] from new zealand if you like your horns and your synth and so you're not stuck in the 80s no yeah

[01:39:23] no not at all i do appreciate it of course just do love it but uh i'm always open to stuff and then

[01:39:28] i've got a 22 year old and a 19 year old so yeah you sort of gotta you keep up with the times dual

[01:39:34] leap are like they're fantastic you know whether you meant to or not have you influenced some of

[01:39:37] their music listening at any point the kids wow if i played anything my my daughter tells me to

[01:39:44] get off her spotify because she doesn't want it coming up on the feeds right a bit embarrassed

[01:39:49] by it i would say absolutely no okay absolutely no um i've taken them obviously to a hoodoo gurus

[01:39:56] concert and they respect that yeah no i've had zero influence on it i've never played a musical

[01:40:02] instrument myself which is a regret but i'm never too late i know so i've got a guitar at home i've got

[01:40:10] to say that dave fortner gifted me a guitar 20 years ago it's a collector's item it's one of his

[01:40:16] rarities um and he gave it to me he said i want you to learn to play and and i've for 20 years i've

[01:40:23] never sort of taken it up but i'll make a pack here with with you and your listeners now that i'm

[01:40:29] going to start i'll get as good as i can but you need like 20 minutes a day yeah and i can do that yeah

[01:40:35] and this is just uh this is a guitar he used to record on the blow your cool album so okay yeah

[01:40:42] it's pretty cool can you pin down a favorite act of all time artist band whatever it's okay if you

[01:40:48] can't no but favorite concerts so yeah i will never forget 1983 december 15 1983 cold chisel's

[01:40:56] last stand at the city entertainment center the original last stand yes yes yes the vinyls played

[01:41:01] for an hour and then chisel played for three i'm a big admirer of bruce springsteen you've come to

[01:41:06] you've come to the right place i've seen him concept well and the gurus have actually got to meet him

[01:41:10] um because little stephen is a big fan of the guru so he sort of put them together there at a couple

[01:41:16] of times i don't want to wig you out we don't know each other that well but he's actually my hero in

[01:41:19] life no joke yeah i'm his biggest fan i've actually met him once through pure luck and it was the

[01:41:26] highlight of my life yeah i'm he's my guy so yeah so what what i respect so you go to a bruce springsteen

[01:41:32] concert and and and i sort of know this from through dave and the band so when he goes on tour

[01:41:39] they practice for three months before they go on tour yes and it is a a prerequisite from bruce to

[01:41:46] they have to know every song from his catalogue yeah because on any given night if a fan in the audience

[01:41:53] has a sign and holds up and bruce notes it sees it and wants to do it he says yeah yeah let's play

[01:42:01] that one yeah now it might be from his album from 1978 it might be the fourth song from the side

[01:42:08] second side of the album and they do it and they do it it's amazing yeah born in the usa tour in 86

[01:42:13] was outstanding yeah it's one that's my regret in life al i didn't get to go to that yeah right yeah i

[01:42:19] went it was outstanding whether you do or don't like his music he's an entertainer yeah he literally

[01:42:24] commands a present seen the rolling stones there's there's several guys who have stage presence yeah

[01:42:29] um who you got to respect mick jaggers one our our version of mick jagger i believe was um michael

[01:42:35] hutchins like he walked on stage and everyone just went yeah well let's shut the hell up now yeah see what

[01:42:41] he does let's talk more springsteen what's your favorite album uh wow that's hard i can't i can't pin it down

[01:42:48] to one he did the show on broadway yes uh for a couple years there yes and so if you you can watch

[01:42:53] it on netflix or you can get the album when he just when bruce springsteen stands on stage with a an

[01:43:00] acoustic guitar yeah for the best part of 90 minutes or maybe two hours and and the only other instrument

[01:43:07] in that time i believe his wife comes on and she might do a couple and that's it that is authentic

[01:43:12] bruce springsteen as good as you'll ever hear it and he's songwriting so i'm always fascinated with

[01:43:19] songwriters and because people have a perception of oh this what's this song about you know i want

[01:43:25] you back well it's actually not it's the opposite or pearl jam you know like she lies and says she's in

[01:43:30] love with him he can't find a better man well it's not that's not the meaning of it yeah but people

[01:43:34] don't get it so we just think a bit deeper than into our music so yeah springsteen's incredible i was

[01:43:40] lucky enough to see that show in the flesh wow and i've seen him uh i've seen him probably like

[01:43:47] 25 30 times mostly in the last 15 years and that's probably the best like it it was raw there was a

[01:43:55] moment where i i actually started crying and because he was telling a story and i was like oh my god

[01:44:02] like i'm such an idiot like i'm so embarrassed and i turn around and the entire theater is crying

[01:44:09] yeah and it happened three or four times and yeah there was great laughs as well and like it's

[01:44:14] it's a real it's just every emotion you can think of but that that performance i also recommend to

[01:44:19] anyone like it's just ridiculous and how he um puts every song that he sings into the place in his

[01:44:27] life and tells us about my dad my mom and stuff and how he grew up it's it's amazing i watched it on

[01:44:32] netflix when i've watched it more than once now yeah and my wife uh sat down and she's not a brink

[01:44:38] thing fan she could you know born in usa probably that's the only song she might know glory days yeah

[01:44:43] or dancing in the dark and so we don't watch much of the same stuff at all 99 of the stuff we watch is

[01:44:51] different but she actually sat through that and at the end of 90 minutes and just went wow that was

[01:44:57] pretty good yeah and so i went if she's saying that like anyone can yeah it's got to buy into this

[01:45:04] i always tell people um just come to the show like come see him play and and when they do they just they

[01:45:11] come back next time like it's just one of those things you can't walk out of there and go

[01:45:14] yeah it was okay i was like no no that that just changed your life whether you want to admit it or not

[01:45:19] yeah there's no other power that he has like it's just pretty incredible to still be going he's

[01:45:24] still touring i think he's still he's got dates coming right through to the middle of next year

[01:45:30] yeah i want to keep talking springsteen yeah al but i want to get to 2016. let's talk about where were

[01:45:37] you sitting at the grand final i was lucky to get a seat at the grand final to be honest um oh this

[01:45:43] disappoints me to hear that yeah in the last few years i've uh i've fallen into a pastime of uh

[01:45:51] mc-ing a lot of events and doing sports interviews with some really great people similar to this but

[01:45:57] i sit down in on stage in front of 800 400 300 200 24 people yeah i did a job for someone they flew

[01:46:04] me to brisbane to interview a guest up there in front of the big crowd and i i just i didn't get any

[01:46:10] payment for it it was just you know i'll help you out later on in that year the sharks went on the

[01:46:14] run and they're getting close to grand final and i thought wow i think you're gonna make this

[01:46:19] anyway the weekend when they won the prelim to go i was away on a conference doing an

[01:46:26] interview or something for somewhere and my son rang me he said dad the sharks are in the grand final

[01:46:32] it'd be mad he said i said do you want to go and he said yeah it'd be great because all his mates

[01:46:37] were going he should be mad to go i said all right i said the problem mate is it's sold out it's monday

[01:46:43] right it's sold out right i can't promise i said i knew the guy who i did the favor for in

[01:46:49] risban had contacts with tabcorp big company big company big corporate company have boxes at

[01:46:56] stadium australia and whatever so i rang him i said remember that job i did yeah it was worth two

[01:47:02] grand yeah in lieu of two tickets to the grand final anywhere in the joint i'll do your deal and he said

[01:47:09] mate i'm in las vegas oh but can you give me 48 hours and i'll ring you back no worries 48 hours

[01:47:18] he said i got them he said i got no idea where they are mate just whatever that's all i get

[01:47:22] against a bang and they arrived in my house letterbox and we went and um we sat so for the last two minutes

[01:47:29] when melbourne's where we're at the line yeah um i was directly in in line with the sharks try line

[01:47:36] which side beyond um was it where he made the tackle or was it the other side to the side they

[01:47:41] were attacking to the left right so melbourne attacking to the left i'm over on that side and

[01:47:45] i'm just going i sort of knew it i thought my call i called it when they they did a dropout

[01:47:52] something happened we defended that and i went okay i said they got it okay they got it okay i don't know

[01:47:57] how long that was from full time but from that dropout yeah i just knew that's when i knew so to share it

[01:48:04] with my son but when when it's going back and forth and you're on the trial line are you still going we

[01:48:10] got it yeah really yeah yeah you're the only guy in that stadium okay i told my son i turned him i said

[01:48:16] they got it there's gaps everywhere i know i just knew i just knew i just i don't know why so did you

[01:48:23] have any like communication or connection with the with the club leading up to it zero okay so how did

[01:48:31] you end up the next day with the team or whatever well sorry what'd you do that night so that night

[01:48:37] everyone was going back to the league's club of course and it was you just so i said joey do you

[01:48:41] want to go back yeah yeah well so i went back i said mate we get there and it's like literally

[01:48:46] the licensing police have cordoned off the joint there's too many people in here now we went to

[01:48:51] get in and administer one of the management teams saw me and said come here come here do you want to get

[01:48:55] you want to come in i said i'd love to i've got my 16 year old son oh the license couples won't let

[01:49:01] him in hmm just no worries thank you very much i appreciate it and we're walking off so i'm walking

[01:49:07] off towards the back of the car park and this big suv limo rolls in and out of the out of the limo

[01:49:15] gets dino damien keo pull on here like the board they get out well so what are you doing i said mate

[01:49:23] oh we were trying to get in but we can't they won't let joy and hey you'll be right you're with

[01:49:29] us so we went out and got ushered up the uh fire escape and okay into the room so i was in the in the

[01:49:37] room uh the old king one restaurant yes brought back some memories yes uh looking out on onto the field

[01:49:43] and you can see the thousands of people out there so i don't know how but we didn't bump into each

[01:49:48] other but i myself and my friend adam who used to do the podcast it's our second year podcasting and we

[01:49:53] did a lot for the club at the time and they got us in as a thank you yeah and so i was oh we were up

[01:49:59] there having a good time life-changing moment for me but yeah unbelievable like what an experience

[01:50:05] yeah and so i said and so my boy was 16 he was getting tired been a long day and you could see

[01:50:12] that they told us that the team was coming back so i said listen i'll tell you mate this is something

[01:50:17] you'll never say like this will be unique we'll wait till that happens so we waited watched the thing

[01:50:22] and he's smiling and he's sort of half falling asleep and i said you want to go now he said yeah

[01:50:27] lee yeah let's go i said cool and i just shook everyone's hand and then the next day like the

[01:50:33] text messages were going off the tree boys get up to carrying bar in get up to carrying bar in

[01:50:38] i thought i'll i'll go up to carrying bar in so i went through my collection of stuff and i've got some

[01:50:45] weird and wonderful clothing yeah um everything from safari suits the scottish golf outfit i'm on

[01:50:52] the lookout for more safari suits if anyone can help me please okay i thought well i'm gonna dress up

[01:50:57] so i managed to find the 19 i'm gonna say 1990 we were sponsored by brewers yeah i managed to find that

[01:51:06] tracksuit from 1990 right so i put it on and i strutted into um carrying bar in we met in the front

[01:51:13] bar there's a massive tv screen yeah and we watched the grand final as a bunch of old boys

[01:51:19] they had to be like there would have been 100 old boys but and our mates so it was like 300 people in

[01:51:25] there and it was absolutely amazing like it was it was so good i'll never forget it ended up in um

[01:51:33] a bar down canola at 11 or 12 o'clock that night and i just happened to be

[01:51:39] there was three of us and one of them was david riccio good friend of the show good friend of

[01:51:44] the show and uh i like david a lot he said uh hey wilson that tracksuit's amazing it's amazing

[01:51:53] he said you reckon i could borrow it i said mate whenever you want you can borrow i don't know if

[01:51:58] you ever did um i've still got it sam i'm i was threatening to wear it to this year's reunion but

[01:52:03] i'll bring it out maybe next year or for a special event but um yeah so i i still remember that day

[01:52:10] the monday for me was as good as anything yeah um because it was sharing that you know momentous

[01:52:17] occasion with people that i played with and grew up yeah of course who all wanted it yeah and i mean

[01:52:21] i mean gal's speech was amazing like like that speech was eloquent to go through what he went

[01:52:26] through and then get up there and do that that was perfection and he thanks you guys everyone who

[01:52:33] who'd come before him which meant a lot you made et's up there crying his eyes out like everyone

[01:52:38] yeah that was a great moment uh so there was that feeling and you know i've never played a minute for

[01:52:44] the club there was that feeling that this is for a lot of people before us you know it was it was

[01:52:49] beautiful real beautiful it was amazing people still talk about it to be honest absolutely i'll be

[01:52:54] driving home today and i'll see a number plate that it'll say shark 16 or something you know

[01:52:59] there'll be on that note where do you see the club right now i'm a big fan of craig fitzgibbon

[01:53:04] i'm actually preparing a um an interview i've got to do in the coming weeks just about culture and

[01:53:10] leadership i'll be talking to melbourne storm general manager frank panisi and so in doing that i read a

[01:53:18] lot of stuff because i'm into junior league coaching i still i still love coaching kids and stuff some

[01:53:23] teams the great teams add up to more than the sum of their parts like and i think with craig fitzgibbon

[01:53:29] like we don't have a player in there in two what there was two australian team names yeah and we

[01:53:35] don't get anyone in there you know i know we had a few from the from the pacific islands yeah because

[01:53:40] there's with craig at the helm running this stuff the sum of our parts adds up to greater than what

[01:53:48] our you know we read on paper you yeah if you read through that penrith team you go but don't

[01:53:53] need of course they should be in the top they should be in the preliminary final why wouldn't

[01:53:57] they be in the preliminary final you ride that you read the roosters yeah and no disrespect to the

[01:54:01] sharks but a lot of people read our team and go yeah no they're not they're not they're not

[01:54:05] they're not going to be in a preliminary final we are because they submit and they commit to the team

[01:54:11] cause yeah and i think that's all led by craig fitzgibbon and i and i've got to give him a lot of

[01:54:15] praise for that okay as long as he's there we're we're heading in the right direction i think i think

[01:54:19] he's there for a while which is good good which is great you know i'm a big fan again you know we

[01:54:25] go back to 11 of our 17 were local juniors you know yeah i'm still a believer in giving every kid

[01:54:32] and player in the show a chance because again penrith built built it yeah and a lot of it was from

[01:54:40] kids coming through their system so we just got to get some kids into our system and just

[01:54:44] educate them but we've got a lot of good kids yeah a lot of good people a lot of good characters

[01:54:49] and there's a lot of luck in footy if you work hard you get more chance of getting better luck so

[01:54:55] all right al uh we've got to wrap it but thank you so much for your time it's been a long time

[01:54:59] coming really appreciate you coming on it's my absolute pleasure i just i don't know how anyone

[01:55:04] could find that interesting but well you shouldn't be surprised that people love the club and they

[01:55:10] love the history our listeners are from like aged eight to 80 literally and a lot of them will love

[01:55:16] the story other people will learn about it so that's important to me but no absolute pleasure to

[01:55:21] have you i appreciate the support i get i can walk into a coffee shop and some guy will recognize me

[01:55:27] absolutely so i do you've aged very well i have to say thank you very much i just turned 57 you

[01:55:32] wouldn't know it as the older i've gotten yeah the more i've learned to accept that i was actually

[01:55:37] probably pretty good yeah i'm just i'm getting more comfortable with accepting my the accolades and and

[01:55:43] what i achieved because i probably watch a lot of footy and go wow i perceive some player to be

[01:55:49] better than me and he's sure he's not going anywhere and that's just me we hope that you get more

[01:55:54] comfortable in your skin because you're a big part of our of our history and it's awesome so thank you for

[01:55:58] your time i'll be back anytime you want you said it we'll do it let's make it happen uh appreciate you

[01:56:03] and your time uh we're going to wrap it up there thanks for listening and we'll be back with another

[01:56:08] episode as soon as we can this is shark cast pod up up

[01:56:12] back in the shire