Flagship Episode with Dr Cameron Webb (13/8/26)

[00:00:01] The Royal Motor Yacht Club Port Hacking is a hidden gem of the Shire, situated on the banks of the beautiful Port Hacking. It's a great place to catch up with friends, celebrate your birthday or any special occasion, and they always show the NRL live on the big screens. The RMYC Port Hacking, proud sponsors of this podcast and big supporters of the Cronulla Sutherland Sharks. Check out their website rmycph.com.au

[00:00:26] They've got a Facebook page, or you could go old school and call them on 029523 9300 And to all you people back in the Shire, turn your port slides off because we're coming home with a trophy.

[00:01:05] Hey there, welcome to SharkCast Pod, a podcast dedicated to the greatest sporting club in the history of the world, the mighty Cronulla Sutherland Sharks. And this is brought to you by Dyson Logistics, the Royal Motor Yacht Club and Port Hacking. Jason Hawes of Crips and Crips Real Estate, and we get our copies from Mr. Paisley's. And we are joined on the weekly flagship show, mostly weekly when we get around to doing it, by Dr. Cameron Webb. He's a good mate of ours, longtime co-host, longtime friend of mine.

[00:01:34] He is the best entomologist in the world. He plays a mean guitar. And when I say mean, I mean beautiful and loopy and atmospheric. And what else can I tell you about Dr. Cameron Webb? He just went and saw Massive Attack, and he once saw Jennifer Love Hewitt in concert, and his wife should have taken me, but didn't. And I'm in therapy for lots of reasons, and that's one of them that's going to come up. Cam, welcome to the show, my friend. How are you?

[00:02:03] Yeah, yeah, good, Sam. Sam, I'm hoping that maybe we can stop paying you those sort of checks as compensation for the heartache of missing Jennifer Love Hewitt in concert. That was only about 25 years ago, Sam. Give me a break. I've been paying that compensation for a long time now. I've got a feeling it was longer, actually, but we can work that out another time. We're here to talk about the sadness that was last Sunday with the positivity of going into a game against Canberra this week, and top four is still very much on the line.

[00:02:31] So, Cam, let's get straight to it. What did you make of the mess that was Sunday afternoon at Coggera? How did it make you feel, and what did you see? And just let's start talking about it. It was horrible. To put it bluntly. And I think that it's frustrating because it wasn't the loss that was heartbreaking.

[00:02:57] It was that it was against the dragons, and it just sort of broke the momentum that we're all getting behind with the sharks. And that's not to say that I won't come back, but I guess that when you have such a, you know, we didn't lose by that much. But the reality is that when we're fighting for potentially a top two finish at the time and to lose to the team coming last,

[00:03:27] irrespective of how well they're playing or how up for it they are, it's really unforgivable in a way. And I think what we want to expect from the sharks now is that when there are these games where you play a team that plays, you know, is punching above their weight in a game or they're more up for it or however you want to describe it, we need to find a way to win. And the game was there to be won on the weekend, and they couldn't do it.

[00:03:54] And I think that that's why we all feel so frustrated and a little bit angry at the result. And again, it's not the loss necessarily. It's who we've lost to and the kind of blip in the momentum that we're all hoping that we're building. Yeah, it's a number of layers. You're right. And the first thing that kind of bugged me was the loss of momentum and the risk of losing the top four spot.

[00:04:23] You're probably saying goodbye to top two. The second thing I noticed straight away was I did follow, I've unfollowed them. I followed a bunch of young kids who do Dragons podcasts, and I was just sort of supporting them or whatever. And they were really having fun at our expense, which is, I get it, like we'd be doing the same thing to them. We had some young guys handing out wooden spoons. I'm not sure if you saw that before the game.

[00:04:51] And that annoyed me that they were getting so much joy in beating us. I like what you just said because the game obviously was there to be won beforehand. The first half was a bit shaky. The game was still there to be won with probably 10 to 15 minutes to go, maybe 10 minutes to go. And they couldn't get it done. And I mentioned on the postgame show that they were cutting corners a lot. Like I saw them not running straight. I saw them going sideways.

[00:05:20] I saw tricky kicking for 40-20s rather than kicking and chasing. I saw push passes, the whole thing. And it was mostly team-wide. It wasn't one or two guys. And that, I thought, was the biggest issue of the whole event because they'd been so good for so long. And I appreciate in this day and age you don't win 15 in a row like we did 10 years ago. I get that, right?

[00:05:51] For whatever reason, you have to come down and come back up. But they kind of did it to themselves. Like the Dragons were good. Like no one's denying that. But I think people throwing out the they would have beaten anyone on their day is a bit of a stretch. Like they played hard. Yeah. But they weren't particularly, you know, they weren't particularly the Dragons of 2010 or whatever. Like they were just better than what they usually are.

[00:06:18] But the game was there to be won and we just refused to kind of get into that arm wrestle with them. Yeah. And I also think, which might be a bit harsh, but I think we let them play better than they have been playing as well. And I think we can't ignore that fact as well. And I guess the thing that we've been talking about now for a long time, which actually is really important as we're heading into the back of the season, into the finals, it's about game management.

[00:06:47] It's about patience and professionalism. And that's where the problem lies. And I feel like we've had this conversation a number of times before is that the team has to be able to be patient enough to take advantage of those to what really was a pretty narrow margin right up until Sue has scored that try.

[00:07:11] And so I think that we're so used to seeing these other top flight teams that only come from behind in a flurry to win a game. But it's one of those things where, as a Sharks fan, we're playing some of these other teams where, you know, we get nervous when we're only 18 in front. You know, why can't we take advantage of a pretty shallow deficit with plenty of time left?

[00:07:38] And so I think that's the thing that gets frustrating because we, the game was said to be won and we couldn't win it against an inferior team, regardless of how well they're playing on the day. Yeah, it's a fascinating one. It's one that I don't want to dwell on, but it's something we also have to address, you know. And I did get word that the coach was not particularly happy after the game.

[00:08:08] And his press conference kind of alluded to that. He said things like, they played like smart asses. He mentioned things like, when you play that way, injuries happen. And he referred to Jesse Ramian. And not that it was a direct correlation. It was more just, I understood what he was saying. When you don't get into that grind and that groove, you sort of, I don't know, not prepared for it as much.

[00:08:36] So the one thing I can't work out, Cam, is that I interviewed a bunch of the guys, spoke to the coach. The vibe was, we know what is going to happen. It happened to us exactly a year ago. We were missing our center as well. Well, the same thing, it's not going to happen this time. And it did. And it happened from the very start. It's not like it happened from the 70-minute thought. It was from the start.

[00:09:03] So that's what's kind of intriguing to me. And I appreciate you turn up for a game and the other team are really, really up for it like the Dragons were. I get that. And that's going to be difficult. But you've won 9 out of 10 games. You've made record margins and individual records and won away from home the whole thing. You've won close games. You've won big games. Like this should not be a problem. Yeah.

[00:09:28] And it was more, as the coach said, it came down to, I think, individual and collective attitude on the day. There's mail we'll get to a bit later. And people said the warm-up apparently was hectic. And by the end of the warm-up, they were a bit frazzled. Now, we've heard those ones before. I'm not discounting what this person said. And we'll get to it later on. But I don't know what happened.

[00:09:53] But I didn't see 1% of indication camera that was coming. Like in the back of my head, we were like, oh, I hope it's not. But from what I saw, what I experienced during the week, and I'm not there every second of the day, but what I saw, I was like, no, it'll be fine. Yeah, it's one of those things where you can kind of understand where a team might be feeling a bit complacent.

[00:10:19] They have every right to go into that game feeling like they're going to win it. Now, they should know because of last year of, notwithstanding what happened last year, but they need to know that this is the team that we hate. And they hate us, and we're going into this game as the most important game that we're playing this all year.

[00:10:44] And what I don't understand as professional athletes is that you put all of that complacency or that mindset aside, but everybody could see in the first 10 minutes, this was not going to be the game that we sort of expected it to be. Yeah. Why can't you turn around your attitude? And I know it's simplistic to say play better, but why can't they correct in game?

[00:11:09] And that's the thing that I find most frustrating is that we could see what was happening. Surely they can as well, if not the coaching staff. How do you turn a team around in their attitude and approach to the game when things aren't going very well? And I suppose, and I sound like I'm being really pessimistic now, but we've now seen those two performances against the Dragons which mirror each other.

[00:11:40] Yeah. Yeah. What happens when we come up against the Panthers or, you know, substitute the Roosters for the Storm last year? Yeah. And this same performance where we can only produce at 80% when making mistakes and things like that. You know what I mean? These habits, how do we break these habits that we get all into? So to make all that weirder, Cam, I think that that's not really a problem when they play the top tier teams.

[00:12:05] When they play top tier teams, I think they just lose those prelims because they're just not quite where the other team is. It's not like we get, you know, toweled up in prelims. We've all got a bit of hope in the 60th minute and then something happens, you know. So that's what makes it all a bit weirder.

[00:12:23] Like I don't discount what you're saying, but like I'm more worried about playing the Titans away than I am playing the Raiders this week if this is what we're going to gauge it off, you know. Yeah. So I thought halftime was going to be our friend because you could see it, you know, by then it was like, oh, this is a bit of a problem. And I thought halftime they would be able to turn it around. We scored first, right? Is that correct?

[00:12:53] We scored first. Well, did we score? Now you're testing my memory. It's been so traumatic to think back about it. Yeah, because Nico missed the goal. It was 4-0. I think that's right. Yeah, we scored. Yeah, because we scored first, missed the goal, and then Nico bottled the try. Held the ball up, yeah. Got held up. Yeah, so my point is we didn't start that bad. Like, they actually looked okay, especially in attack.

[00:13:23] But I think once they scored, maybe that we're going to win by 66 came into play. I don't know. Maybe they thought they had enough to sort of get the job done. But it's a major bummer, that's for sure, especially against that more bad background. Didn't like it. But what do you think it means for where we finish? Like, obviously, it's going to affect us in some capacity. Do you think it's going to be major or minor?

[00:13:51] Well, to be honest, at first, I didn't think it was going to be a problem at all, because I sort of figured, oh, well, we'll finish in fourth. But then I looked at the Dolphins draw. And I think that once I saw that, I thought, oh, hang on. This could be a bit problematic. And so I think that we're, you know, we have to keep winning just to secure top four now. And so unless the Dolphins kind of messed up.

[00:14:20] Are they on the same amount of points or two points? No. Are they on the same amount of points of us, but not such a great for and against, thanks to us? Yeah, they're minus 71 comparatively. Yeah. 71 ahead. Okay. Okay. So, yeah, we need to keep winning when they win, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, we're not exactly locked in. We're certainly not locked in the top four. And I think that that's kind of, you know, I guess that's the kind of reason why I sort

[00:14:48] of feel like, so I guess I'm not feeling so bad necessarily about the loss. But if we won that game, I sort of would be feeling like, oh, maybe we will drop one in the next couple of weeks. But now it's feeling like, oh, no, we can't drop one now in the next couple of weeks. So if you backtracked to before the derby, did you think we were going to go undefeated? Hopeful, but I didn't think we would.

[00:15:13] And I probably, the fact that there was so much coverage of us and suggestions we would go through undefeated. Yeah. I guess the only thing that buoyed my kind of hopes a little bit was that I, with the way that some results were going, I mean, there was a chance that we could have been in the running to finish top two. Yeah. And I thought that might've kind of been the, you know, like the motivation to do that. Definitely.

[00:15:40] I mean, you have a lot of the teams above us playing each other. So if we kept on winning from last week, there was definitely room for us to get there. And that also really frustrates me. I've spoken about this probably under the Fitzy era more than anyone else's. And I'm not, I'm not putting this on him. I'm putting this on the squad that he's got.

[00:16:06] They don't seem to understand when they have a really good moment and a good chance to do something. It's like they make it really hard for themselves. So they, they tend to put themselves in these positions where they end up going to Melbourne for a prelim and they've busted their butt all year. But if they'd done something along the way, they'd be hosting it wherever, you know, and

[00:16:34] this year is a perfect example where, okay, it's the last dance. All these guys are leaving. We finally found our groove. We're nine from 10 or whatever, eight from eight from nine. And people are talking about premierships and all this sort of thing. And then we come up against the dragons and we blow it. It's like they didn't realize that we're playing for a top two spot, which is what we were doing, even potentially. I know it's far fetched, but potentially a minor premiership if, if things kind of really went crazy.

[00:17:04] So I don't understand the notion of, I understand the notion of it's okay to lose one and then bounce back. I get that. But in this circumstance, there's not one part of me that goes, it's the kick up the bum we needed. It's a loss we had to have. I needed us to go undefeated to have a real chance of doing something special in a really, not easy way, but in a very natural way, you know?

[00:17:34] Yeah. So Sam, where does the, like, where does the fault lie then? And I think this is the, this is the thing is that you look at that performance on Sunday and they were, I sort of feel like they all performed as badly as each other. And so I really struggle.

[00:17:56] You know, I really struggle to kind of identify one of the players that kind of played as well as we have seen them in recent weeks. And it's not like we blew it because, you know, we had a bit of a miss, you know, a mix up of the combinations in the backs. And so they got us down the left or right-hand side or through the middle or something. It was just like across the board. Yeah.

[00:18:20] And what happens for the team to consistently or to uniformly produce that kind of lower than expected performance? I mean, I thought, I thought a lot of people are blaming Maweenie Hirati for a bunch of things. And the most obvious one was that miss for the last try when they were already winning anyway. And that sealed the deal. And that was a bad miss.

[00:18:45] But I thought that, I thought Billy Burns was decent. Yeah, he was good. I thought, I thought Sione Katoa had some okay moments. But a lot of the guys were way below where they were as a group. You're right, like individually as a group. But what makes it even stranger for me, Cam, is that I legitimately saw effort.

[00:19:13] I legitimately saw them trying to get out of it. It was just the wrong way. Like, as I said, it was a cheap way to get out of it. But it's not like they didn't recognize. Like, Trindle's getting the ball. He's like, I've got to get a 40-20 here. He was trying. But it was like Hail Mary stuff. It's like, mate, this is, you might get one, but this is your third go. And they've caught on to it. You know, Nico tried his butt off. He had a very average game, but he tried his butt off.

[00:19:43] But it was different to Nico trying his butt off and even having some success. Like, just all of them, mostly, aside from Billy Burns, maybe. Like Will Kennedy, who I love. Like, he wasn't catching the ball. It was just across the park. I don't know how that happens. I'll say this, Cam, though. I don't – I kind of just put the blame on the players.

[00:20:11] I don't really blame the coach or other things. I think they run out and something's happened. And I don't know who else to blame but the players, really. Yeah, I don't know either. It's – you know, it's – obviously, we look at this as fans of the club, but I also look at it as trying to think about the psychology of sport and what goes wrong.

[00:20:36] And, you know, you probably know from when we were young kids playing sport where the coach would say, look, you know, whenever you were playing a team that was at the bottom of the table, they'd say, you know, don't play to the opposition standards. And more often than not, you end up playing badly against the team that's playing badly. But what about the converse of that and picking up your game when the team's playing well? I sort of feel like the biggest problem, and this seems to be a symptom

[00:21:03] of when we do have losses or don't play well, is that our forwards don't seem to be making the metres coming out of our half. And I think that that's the issue, isn't it? Because Tricky wouldn't be going for 40-20s had we been making more metres coming off our line. And I don't know whether it was just simply the absence of Siffer or whether we were running to sideways consistently. But that, to me, seems to be the biggest symptom that –

[00:21:33] Yeah. It seems to plague us in these sport performances. I will say in this game, I think that's where we lost it for sure. And, you know, everyone's like, Blake Braley didn't make a run. I was like, well, he had no room to run. Like, there was no fast play the balls. There was no space. I guess they weren't – the forwards just weren't – like, to be fair, the Dragons pack is young, aggressive, and really fighting their feet.

[00:22:01] And, you know, in two or three years' time, they're going to be a really good forward pack, let alone the rest of the team would be pretty good too. But – so they – I understand how that works. They got out-muscled. I understand what we lost because they played harder and faster. Like, if we had Fitzy on now in the third box on the screen, he'd be like, guys, they played harder and faster. It sucks. I can't explain why it happened. But that's the results. Like, that's the simplicity of the game. Yeah.

[00:22:30] We don't understand how that happens. I get that. But you're right. The forwards, nah. They didn't really lay down the law. And that, unfortunately, in this game, that's how you win the game. So it's one of those ones, Cam, where if we – and I hope we do, and I'm assuming we'll beat Canberra this week – bounce back and you move on and you put it past you.

[00:22:58] But I need to get past that before I'm kind of a bit more content. I'm a little bit restless in my body right now because I don't know what that was. And I'm hoping I don't see it again. Like, I don't think we'll see it in the finals. Like, I think Josh made the point in one of our texts. He said, we're not going to play that in the finals. We never do. It's just we just didn't turn up for this game. And I don't know why, but that's what happened.

[00:23:27] Yeah, Billy Byrne's try was awesome and his celebration was great. I thought it would get them more inspired and it didn't. But anyway, let's move on because I'm getting sad just talking about that game. I think I kind of feel more confident going into this weekend knowing after that result because, as you pointed out on a number of occasions, the Sharks don't seem to lose too many in a row. Correct. Correct.

[00:23:57] So I'm pretty sure this year we haven't lost more than two. And I'm pretty sure under Fitzy we haven't lost more than three. If that's wrong, I apologize. But it's something like that. And as Kieran pointed out on Monday, he said that, you know, as fans, we now expect to win every game. And when we play Penrith and the Roosters, we sort of expect to go really close or win it anyway. And I think it's a great place to be. Like we've waited a long time to like reach this point. So then when we lose games, we've lost, I think, six or seven games all year.

[00:24:27] I mean, that's pretty good compared to like a lot of other teams. But we do tend to like, it is end of world stuff. But I would argue to anyone who disputes that, that we played the team coming last, who is our enemy at their opposition home ground and where nine of 10 wins, that is end of world stuff, you know. Yeah. But we did say we're going to move on. So we have the run home.

[00:24:54] So we've got Canberra this week at Ocean Protect Stadium. It's the last day game at home, as far as we know, for this year. So three o'clock kick off on Saturday. And that'll suit us. Although I think there is a bit of rain coming, but that'll suit us. Yep. Generally speaking. And then we have the following Sunday is on the Gold Coast, an afternoon game. And that'll be challenging in its own right.

[00:25:22] And then we have Parramatta, which I think is a Sunday as well at Parramatta Amazing Stadium. And we come home to play the Storm on the Saturday night for the big game. So none of that screams easy to me, even though people are saying to me it's an easy draw and everything.

[00:25:46] But if this team is going to go do something special or close to special, then you'd think they can go four from four. Yeah. As big a challenge as that is, they've lost one. But if we're talking Canberra at home, Titans away, Eels away, Storm at home, it's all doable. Yeah, I agree. And I think that it's, you know, there's four games left in the season.

[00:26:15] You go into each game with nothing else on your mind other than how we're going to win this game. Yeah. And get the job done. So, yeah, I agree with you. I think each of the, you know, it's easy to point to each of those games and how they're going to be tricky or how we could lose it. Or think about, you know, previous games that we've played against those teams and lost. But I think in 2026, I think they're all winnable.

[00:26:45] Yeah. The challenging thing is they all have their own reasons to win. And, I mean, Canberra are really annoyed with what went down last week. And the Titans are just struggling to win games. They want to prove themselves. Para kind of winning every three or four games in kind of heroic fashions. And then the Storm are just a storm. They've got to try and win every game they want to play. So, there are challenges there.

[00:27:13] But we've got to believe that we can do it, especially now we've dropped one. I think the key is don't drop any more. And there's a correlation between 2016. We dropped two or three. And then came out of that in the finals. But, again, that's an opportunity where they dropped a bunch of games. And I just don't – and we're not the same team as that team. So, I don't want to finish fifth, for example.

[00:27:40] And if I can finish third somehow, I don't know if it's still possible, but if I can, I want to finish as high as I can. And I know then we start talking about who we're going to play on that kind of stuff. And maybe that is playing the Warriors away. I'm not sure. I don't really have a – my only preference is probably to play in Sydney rather than anywhere, which would be New Zealand. But, you know, at this point, you're going to be told where you're going and that's it.

[00:28:09] It's just – there's no time to sit around and cry about it. No, because there's – you know, they had a chance – you know, the brutal reality is they had a chance to avoid this situation. But they haven't been able to do that. And so now it's really – it is getting to that stage where it's like a game at a time now. And you work out how you're going to win the next game in front of you. And eventually that might mean going to New Zealand.

[00:28:37] But whatever the finals throws up, it's – you know, you've got to beat the teams in front of you. I know some paths are better than others. But in the same way that we don't want to be, you know, assuming that there's easy games for the rest of the season. Because at the end of the day, you know, I don't know if I really want to be playing the Knights or the Bulldogs. Yeah. Or, you know, in the finals. In sudden death, yeah. In sudden death.

[00:29:02] So, you know, I'm just as nervous about – yeah, I'm just as nervous about playing the Knights as I would be playing the Panthers in week one of the finals, to be honest. So I think we're going into each game working out a way that we can win that game. Yeah. And it's something that a few people have sort of gotten onto and their attitude. And it's sort of – there was a blemish from the weekend.

[00:29:27] But before that, you know, our mutual friend Jardim was saying like, give me whoever, whenever, wherever, and let's go beat them. And we were like, yeah, that's awesome. And I like that attitude. And I think this team can do that. I don't know how many weeks in a row they can do it, but they can definitely do it. But that's what it's going to come down to now. It's going to be a little bit like last year where going out of Canberra week two, not much fun, but got it done.

[00:29:55] Go to Melbourne, almost got it done, didn't – we're kind of in that territory, I think. Like, now there's four weeks to go, Cam. I'm not going to go through the draw of all the teams, but they do play each other a bit. So there's a chance – even though the Dolphins are right behind us, there is a chance we finish higher than fourth still. So it's less likely now than last week.

[00:30:21] But I don't know if it's a done deal that we're fourth or lower. There might be a chance to finish higher. Yeah. But one week at a time. Now, Cam, I watched a lot of football on Sunday, and it was all shark-related. And I'll start with the Newtown Shark Jets. And they had a pretty good win.

[00:30:48] And it was free-flowing football. I don't think I have the – Oh, yeah, I do. Yeah. So they won 36-12. And looking at the team list for this week, it's from last week. Liam Isom was incredible. He's in really great form. He's in the form he was in before he got injured.

[00:31:18] And, you know, I think year after next, he's probably going to be our guy. If Kennedy gets hurt or suspended or whatever, I think they could throw him in. Like, he's going really, really well. Riley Jones, who I believe we got from Newcastle mid-year, a year or two ago, he played a bunch of positions. He's – I don't think he's debuted for us yet. But he's been floating around. And when he plays in the centers, he actually looks okay.

[00:31:48] And he had a good game. Sam Stonestreet had a breakout game, I would say. A lot of long-range line breaks, last passes for tries. Really good game from Sam Stonestreet. Riley Pollard had an excellent game. And he'll – as far as I'm aware, he'll be our backup next year. So with Nephi Perugan to Perth, Riley Pollard will be the next man up.

[00:32:19] And then who's under him is a bit of a question mark. I've got a feeling they might sign Taj Ford, who I think is a jet right now. They'll bring him back into the system. I don't think they're going to sign like a veteran kind of halfback. I know there have been a few that's been shopped around to them. So we'll wait and see on that. But Riley Pollard was excellent. Tsuku Hatsapua was good. All the kind of guys you want to see being good were good. Brad Fernley's a really good player.

[00:32:47] I'm not sure where he's signed, if he's a shark or a jet, but he's a really good prop. And I wouldn't be surprised if he kind of got a contract next year with us if he's not already there. I can't tell you that right now. Sam McCulloch was good. Now, Taj Ford was really good. He played a lot of the second half.

[00:33:10] The guy that's going to make a bit of an impact, Cam, I think sooner rather than later, when I say soon, I'm talking next year, is Big Felix Fertili. Just a giant of a kid, still growing, I think. He's lost a lot of his... I hate to use this word, but like puppy fat, baby fat, whatever you want to call it. He's super built now. Yeah. And just a really damaging prop. Big guy, probably in the vicinity of...

[00:33:42] He might be shorter than Tom Hazleton, but he feels like he's kind of in that range. Yeah. Him and Tsuku almost. Great game from him. So a bunch of those guys had a really good game. So there's a lot of hope coming through there for the next year or two. And I watched Jersey Flag. Unfortunately, they got beaten and they're going pretty good. They got beaten, unfortunately. But let's talk about NRLW.

[00:34:11] Not having a great season, as you know. Yeah, it's been a bit of a... Obviously, it's a little bit disappointing as much for the team as it is for the fans. And, you know, I think we've been... Sometimes just unlucky in some of these games. The bounce of the ball hasn't favoured us. Opportunities haven't presented themselves. A few games there.

[00:34:40] There's some poor decision-making, both in attack and defence, has let us down. And so, unfortunately, we're at that stage of the season where, yeah, things aren't looking so great, are they? No. I think if this is not last chance saloon, it will be. But going up to Townsville on Sunday night, 6.15pm, so late game.

[00:35:07] And the team is largely unchanged from last week. I saw Cassie Staples is back, replacing her mate. Georgia Raffix is out. Yeah. So, Chyna Pallada's playing in the centre. She's usually a back rower. Mila Alaro debuted last week in the wing, and she went pretty good. She's held her space. Madison Ashby's playing halfback because the other halfback, Kiriratsu, is out injured. So, there's a bunch of injuries. Yeah.

[00:35:35] Do we know how long she's out for? It was an ankle injury, isn't it? Yeah, I'm not sure about that, Cam, how long it'll be. But it's a short season, obviously, so that's a bit of a worry. Yeah. Just missing her. Yeah, her kicking game is sort of being out last week. Yeah. You know, that's a big loss as well.

[00:36:00] But, I mean, there's, you know, almost all the players have been, have had highlights during the games. Like, there's moments that have been really brilliant. And it's just that, unfortunately, bringing it together has been the biggest challenge. And also, a couple of other kind of, playing against teams that are playing well. So. Yeah.

[00:36:29] I think some teams have gotten better. Like, the Bulldogs improved slightly. We've gone back a little bit. So, just little things like that have you lower on the table. For me, one of the highlights, and I'm a big admirer of hers, and I've spoken about her for a couple of years now, but it's Jacinta Carter, the big prop, who is becoming off the bench when she plays, usually. She hasn't played every game. But she's a young, fit prop, and she's been ripping in.

[00:36:56] And I think that if she doesn't become a starter this year, she might next year. And I feel like the Johnson connection might get split up a little bit, where you might have one on the bench and one starting. I think both of them starting isn't quite working. So, and Jacinta Carter comes on and just rips in. And that's its own bonus anyway, to have her on the bench. But I think she might start. She's got a big meter as well.

[00:37:20] So, you know, when they're fully fit, I feel like they will perform better. But that's not necessarily an excuse either, because, you know, one win from, I think, six games. So, clearly not what they had planned. But I still really enjoy watching them. I still, I love the fact we've got a team. I feel grateful we've got a team to watch.

[00:37:44] And I'm just hoping that, yeah, they can win at least a few more games to sort of make it a bit more feel good. And then, you know, you'll have to rock into next year. But not that great for the NRLW. Now, Cam, let's hit some mail. We've got a bit of mail to get through. You can imagine the tone wasn't amazing post-game. I can imagine, Sam.

[00:38:11] So, let me see. Oh, yeah. Okay. So, we're going to start with Stephen. And Stephen says, a bit like clockwork, when you start to believe the team turns up with a poor performance. Dragons were too good for us in every area of the game. Injuries didn't help, but a poor performance nonetheless. Now, for the last month, AFB off the bench has been working well.

[00:38:39] I would say he's playing to his salary again. The notion the highest paid players need to start is ridiculous, especially when they come off the bench and add more to the team. Disappointing way to lose, given it was a crack at the top two. Must move on quickly. We need to switch on for the rest of the season. Otherwise, it'll cost us the top four. That's from Stephen. What do you think about that with AFB and the bench situation that Stephen brings up? Where would you have him, Cam?

[00:39:08] Well, it's no question that coming off the bench with Siffer the last few weeks has been fantastic. But you want him playing big minutes. And whether you want him playing long extended periods, coming off the bench and not leaving the field or something, I don't know. But I don't know. He just seemed to miss the pack.

[00:39:31] He didn't really pack the punch in his runs when he was out there on the weekend. So, I mean, it's a hard one because I sort of feel like you do want him starting. But you're starting to get a bit of data now that suggests that maybe we do have him off the bench. Because I think, I guess this is kind of applied to a few of our games this year, which don't, it's not kind of necessarily particularly entertaining to watch.

[00:40:01] But we seem to be pretty good in that first sort of 15, 20 minutes or so of having a pretty dire grind out kind of structure to our game. And then we let loose when the bench comes on. And so if we kind of amplify that impact off the bench with AFB, well, then maybe that's something that we need to be thinking about.

[00:40:28] But, yeah, it's hard not to kind of want one of your marquee players to be playing to start the game. I don't know. What do you reckon, Sam? It's a tough one. I don't know there's a right answer because if you win that game, we're not talking about it. And Fitties come out and said that he'll be starting. That's what his job is. And I kind of like that. It's like the onus is on him to really do his job.

[00:40:54] However, you know, I do like the one-two punch of him and Siffa. Like, that's pretty bad and scary. So I don't know there's a right answer, to be honest. It's a matter of opinion. You're right, Sam. But then the other thing is, too, is that these guys don't have to play the same role for the entire time they're out on the field.

[00:41:15] And so someone like, you know, AFB is probably not going to run rampant in the first 10, 15 minutes of a game. But, you know, with an emphasis on defense and then he can kind of switch on and try to be a bit more, you know, dominant at different stages of the game. Like, you don't have to have a one-size-fits-all approach to how you play the game, do you? No, you don't.

[00:41:43] And I think it's sort of recent bias, bad timing, the fact that he didn't have a good game for the first time in a while and he was back starting and we lost the game. I think there's a bit of circumstance there, you know. And even though you and I think the forwards probably didn't do the job they should have, it's not up to him necessarily to do all of the work. So… No, not at all. I…

[00:42:15] It might come down to who you're playing. It might come down to injuries, who's fit. There's nothing wrong… I'm with you. There's nothing wrong with him coming off the bench no matter what he's getting paid because if he comes off the bench and does the job, then he's doing his job. And if he starts the game and he does his job, like, that doesn't matter to me. I just wonder what the opposition coach and the opposition props think.

[00:42:44] Is it scarier that he's starting or is it scarier that he's coming on after 20 minutes, you know? It's got to be scarier when he comes off… When he comes on after 20 minutes because I think that we've got to… I know it's really hard, but I think we have to in some ways put aside how much people are getting paid and what their contribution to the team is. We've had these discussions about Nico and Tricky for a couple of years. And I think we're at the stage now where forget about what people are getting paid.

[00:43:13] I know that people are getting paid, have more responsibility, but it's up to Fitzy to have the best combination of players in each of the games and within each of the games to play the role they have to do. And just because you're paying someone a bit more than someone else doesn't mean they need to start. You know, it's going to be whatever's best for the team. And like you said, what's going to work best against the opposition?

[00:43:36] And, you know, we pointed out in recent weeks too where one of our strengths over a lot of these clubs that we're playing is the strength of the bench. And so it's not just about the team being fearful about AFB coming off the bench. It's just that the guys they're going to have out there then are also going to be a step lower in class than what would otherwise be heavy up against.

[00:44:04] So, yeah, let's see how it plays out. So just on your point about starting games before, we're scoring the most points in the NRL this year between the 20th minute and the 40th minute. So the second quarter of the game and also in the third quarter after halftime. So between the 20th and 60th minute broken up in two, we're scoring the most points.

[00:44:32] So that's over a whole year, but that would tell me that whatever Fitz is doing with his bench is working in those periods. Yeah. So that's generally speaking, it's working. Now, let's get to some more mail cam. Moz sent an email via sharkcast.com.au.

[00:44:58] And he was just wondering, it looked like Braden Trindle made a tackle in the first quarter of the game and had a head clash. He looked a bit groggy. The cameras focused on him, but there was nothing further. That's from Moz. Now, the only thing I can say to that Moz is that there is an independent doctor watching unless he was out in the Misty Whippy Band or something. They wouldn't have missed that. So did you notice that at all, Cam? No. No.

[00:45:26] But Triggy did get knocked around a little bit in that game and looked like he sort of was carrying a bit of a leg injury. But, you know, every now and again, you'd see him limping around and the commentators would make something of it. The next thing, he seemed to kick it pretty freely or run pretty freely. So, you know, while I don't think he was impacted so much that that had a bearing on the game. All right. Next up is the legendary RCB from Canberra.

[00:45:55] Big game for him this week. It's his local derby. And he said, It feels worse because of who it was against and what it all means. Make no mistake. This was bad. Very flat. And also agrees that they cut corners. The forwards were plotting and losing the middle to the Young Dragons. When Bradley doesn't run, we don't win. It's a simple game and they beat us at that.

[00:46:26] I would say there were individuals that weren't up to where you'd want to be right now. Slow across kicks, not challenging bombs. Hail Mary's in the rain. It was all there. Take your pick, whatever. Get the whips out and the whipping boys are ready. I'm always of the view that we need a maximum seven losses to make the top four. We've had that now. So we've got to win all the remaining games.

[00:46:55] In the current top finals bracket system, there have been 28 grand finalists. 26 came from the top four. The two that didn't, a combined 64 conceded, 12 scored. South's Bulldogs in 2014, Storm Cowboys 2017. It is what it is. Finally, happy trails to Jesse Ramian who's likely done with his pec injury.

[00:47:23] I don't see us getting good news on this one. In his two stints, someone who always gave a lot even at times when he did make a blunder. 167 games, 60 tries. The 12th try to get 60 tries. I thought he was excellent in 2024 and very missed in the finals. Pretty strong this year. It's going to be weird not having him around. That's from RCB. RCB's retired Jesse Ramian from being a shark, Cam. And you're a doctor. Tell us what's going on. Is he going to play again?

[00:47:53] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, the latest I read about it was that it seems like he and Isaiah Yeo seem to be in a similar situation where the preferred option might be surgery, which is the season finished. But with some rehab, there's a chance they could come back. And so, I don't know. Does that mean there's not any damage to be had or what does that mean?

[00:48:17] I think that there's a chance that rehab alone might get you back up to a level that you could potentially play again this season. But what about a little knock on there that set you back? Well, I guess that's the next question, isn't it? Like, do we want, we all love Jesse. We would love to see him play again. He has a role to play in the team when he's fully fit.

[00:48:41] Do we want to rush him back or play him when he's injured just for the sake of putting him on the field in the finals or in the last game? And I think we've seen this in the past with other players. We have, yeah. Have come back when maybe they shouldn't. And so, you know, I wish the best for Jesse and I'll be sad to see him go. But I think we just have to manage him and also manage the expectations of what he can bring to the team and what risk it is.

[00:49:08] And I guess you could argue that maybe with a six-man bench, you can roll the dice a bit more readily. But, yeah, let's wait. Let's wait and see. If we win all of our games between now and the finals, does that lessen the need to have Jesse back? I don't know. It's a good question. I'm not sure about the answer there. I think we need him back to be at our best. But he's no good to us if he's busted.

[00:49:36] And I'm going to be not like RCB. I'm not going to retire him just yet from a Sharks jersey. Roger's been in touch and said, disappointing performance on the weekend. For a side supposedly building towards the finals, the intensity just wasn't there. It felt like they weren't in expecting to win. Too many errors. I don't believe they deliberately took the foot off the pedal, but it certainly looked like it watching the game. The concern to me isn't simply losing to the Dragons. Anyone can lose an NRL game. It's the manner of the loss.

[00:50:06] If we bring that attitude and intensity to the finals, we won't last long. Maybe it's the wake-up call we needed. I'd much rather have a performance like this now than in week one of the finals. That's something I heard a lot, Cam, from people. I'm interested to hear what you think. Was it a day off, complacency, or are there bigger warning signs for the Sharks heading into September? Warm regards from Roger. Roger's an awesome listener, viewer of ours, Cam. So do we think it was an off day, complacency, or are there bigger warning signs, Cam?

[00:50:37] I think you'd have to see a poor performance again next week to have the warning lights flashing. I don't know, Sam. We've talked about this already on the pod. It's hard to work out exactly what the problem was. How do you really put your finger on what caused this?

[00:50:59] And so maybe it was just a bad day at the office, but at this stage of the season, even that's inexcusable, isn't it? I think so. So the only thing that I'll say is that for whatever reason, and I sincerely don't believe it's a coaching thing. I think it's a player's thing. But we've seen this group in the five years, four and a half years, throw these ones out.

[00:51:29] And it's worse because the Dragons. It's worse because the top four's on the line. But we've seen them do it. Just lose the games that... I know every club fan base says this, and it annoys me when they say it and I hear it. We always lose those games, and we win the ones we shouldn't. But this group actually does. We've got proof. They lose some games where you just like... You know, even if you want to pick on a moment and say the Canberra game last year in the last minute when they scored that Hail Mary try, we still lost it.

[00:51:59] We lost the unlosable game. You know what I mean? They've got it in them. However, they have this amazing ability, and I think it is from the coaching staff, to flip and flick the switch and go, oh, we're really mucked up. Here's another line in the sand. There's a few now, but there's another line in the sand. And go on a winning streak. And they have this sort of shoulders up, bravado kind of thing going on, and we'll show you.

[00:52:28] And I'm hoping to goodness that's what this is now. And then I'll feel completely okay because that's what we do, and we'll get to a prelim and hopefully win the prelim. You know what I mean? But if it's not that, then to Roger's point, it is a bigger sign. But as you said, we won't know at least until Saturday at 4.45 p.m. Yeah. And I think, look, obviously everything gets magnified because it's against the Dragons. Yeah.

[00:52:55] But it was still only eight points. It's not like we blew a 20-point lead or whatever we did against the Broncos last year. Yes. Or just some of these other performances that you've seen from, you know, including some top eight teams. Like, don't forget that the Cowboys are a top eight team at the moment. So, you know, like it's – I didn't see – you know, they were sloppy.

[00:53:22] But the point you've made is that I don't think I saw anyone just give up. Like, nobody was giving up. No. And I think that that's probably something to take some positive – you know, that's enough to think that it is just a bad day and the warning signs aren't there. But again, yeah, let's put it happen on the weekend.

[00:53:45] I'm a big body language guy and I watch these guys really closely, you know, for a living and for other things and for fun and for pain. And I was watching them pretty closely on Sunday and they knew what was happening. Like, they were surprised but at a certain point, they knew what was happening. They knew what it meant and they were still trying to dig themselves out of the hole.

[00:54:14] And I appreciate that and I respect that. And I think that's also something that's given me a bit of hope. It's like they're not unaware of what happened even post-game and this week. They're perfectly aware of what happened. So, I think that's a bonus in a weird way as well. All right. Paul has written to us and Paul says, Hey, Shark Cast, what a letdown. Before the game, I thought the only way St. George would win is if they produced their best performance on the same day.

[00:54:44] We dished up one of our worst and that's exactly what happened. Fitzgibbon's comments, But we smart-assed our way through the game lined up with the evidence of our eyes. The first time was when Ronnie went for a low percentage offload in the set after our first points. By the next time we touched the ball, the lead was gone. We never really looked on for a couple of minutes after that. Being out in theos in a derby match is tough to stomach.

[00:55:12] The coach also spoke about this being a wake-up call. While even the greatest teams get a rude shock on the odd occasion, the frequency which the Shark side needs to be reminded about the dangers of complacency is not a trait found in many premiership winners. Oh, my heart. I still believe they can make that leap, but it's always later than you think. And the game won't wait for them. Oh, we got a wordsmith here, Paul. That was amazing.

[00:55:42] It breaks my heart, but that is amazing. And that's exactly what I meant before, Kim, about the team over the past five years not knowing what opportunity is just above them. When Paul says about needing a wake-up call, even the greatest teams get a rude shock occasionally, but the frequency which the Shark side needs to be reminded about the dangers of complacency is not a trait found in many premiership winners.

[00:56:13] I think we can make the leap, but it's always later than you think, and the game won't wait for them, i.e. we've got to go to Melbourne and win a prelim to make a grand final. Like, I love what he's written. It breaks my heart. It's very true, and congratulations, Paul, for having such a big brain. That's awesome. I think that's what we all feel. I think it's what even some of the players and coaches feel. Like, that's the reality of where we find ourselves.

[00:56:38] However, Paul and Cam, if we do turn it around and win the next four games, I think we go in with a pretty good feel and in a pretty good position to still do something. Oh, 100%. There's no question about that. And that's the focus of the team now. Yeah, let's see where we are heading into week one of the finals. All right.

[00:57:06] Adam has written in, and I mentioned Adam before without mentioning his name. So he was at the game. He noticed the warm-up on the field was very full-on to the point where players were already walking around with their hands on hips, exhausted from the warm-up. I know they're athletes. Prime do this, but it seems a waste of potential energy. We then went... What have we got here?

[00:57:34] We went right into attack. Looked good. Nikko's passes were being shut down, though. Pass selection was a bit off. Nobody wanted to jump up for the ball on our kick chase, despite a good game from Tricky with his kicking. And Ronnie looked like he was hurt. Quote, I'll be there on Saturday, and I'm sure we'll see a return to the high-intensity and quick defensive line speed that got us here. Kind regards from Adam. So Adam's a bit worried about that warm-up.

[00:58:00] And the only thing I'd say about that, Cam, is people far more experienced and intelligent in that line of work are aware of all this that's going on. They've got the GPSs on. They're sports scientists. There's a whole crew, actually, that you probably aren't aware of who are behind this team and monitoring every move they make. So I personally don't think that's a problem. I wasn't there. I didn't see it. And I appreciate Adam letting us know.

[00:58:28] But I think if that's a problem, then that's a far wider, bigger issue if they can't handle the warm-up. Yeah. You know what, Sam? I mean, you and I are at the games pretty regularly, so we see them warming up. And they warm up for what seems like a pretty long time. And I know this sort of comes up in conversation all the time about, hang on, why are these guys out here for half an hour warming up before the game? And pretty, at times, pretty intensively.

[00:58:57] But I think that, you know, I don't want to speak for you, but at least more informed people than me would say it's, you know, this stuff is monitored. It's not randomly, like, you know, these are all very systematically planned drills and stuff that are leading into the game. And so I think that if there was any risk that what they're doing in the warm-up is going to impact the game, they're not going to be getting away with that.

[00:59:27] I mean, it does, I get more nervous when I'm watching them dropping balls all the time when they're passing the ball around and doing stuff like that, because I... Yeah, you do see that. That makes me more nervous than how much energy they might be expelling during the warm-up. And I can tell you, even at training, they're wearing their GPS, they're monitored by people on the sideline, there are people monitoring everything they do. There's a million different cameras filming them at training. There's drones. And it's a...

[00:59:58] It's as high-intensity tech-wise as they've ever been. Even a small club like ours, we're up to date with everything. And you'd be amazed at what goes on at training, even just all the tech they're wearing and the monitoring and come off the field, go on the field. He needs water. He doesn't need water, the whole thing. So I wouldn't worry too much about that, Adam, but thanks for being in touch. Daniel said, emotion hit me again last week. That'll do that to you, Daniel. Looking back at the game, I'm not worried.

[01:00:28] The Panthers lost to the Broncos, the Roosters lost to the Storm, and the Wars lost to the Tigers. It happens. It did hit me hard, but more because they're the enemy. I wanted to point out, I thought Oregon Kapusi had a great game off the bench for us. We missed Talakai immensely, but Oggy gives me some hope for next year. Very underrated player. Let's touch on that before we go on, Cam. I'm a huge Oggy guy. What are your thoughts on the tall man? Oh, he's great. Yeah, he's great.

[01:00:57] And I think he's been pretty good in the last few weeks, last few games that he's played. I think he's got a really important role to play in the team. And I think that we've identified in the past that the games you don't notice him are usually the games when he's playing, making a pretty good contribution. And he's one of these guys that's pretty no-nonsense.

[01:01:24] I don't think, you know, there was a time when he might have had a few mistakes and errors in his game, but I think he's generally pretty better. He's much better now. So, yeah, I think the last few games he's played for us have been really strong. And, yeah, if anything, to me, it's like I sort of expect more of him. Or I think there's more that I think he can play at a better level than he's at. I think he can be more of an impact player.

[01:01:54] I think he's a strong guy. If he – yeah, I think that we can get more from him. Do you mean there's a higher ceiling or he needs to do more? What do you mean? Oh, I think there's a high ceiling. And I look at him – I guess you're sort of drawing on his physique, I suppose, as much as anything else. But he's a powerful guy and I'd like to see him kind of really belting into the line a bit more than what he does.

[01:02:23] And we see similar kind of – similar-sized guys across the competition. And I feel like what we don't really ever see from him is, you know, hitting the ball at full pace, running into the line and trying to break the line. Like he – way too often I think of – I see him – you know, he's a bit flat-footed when he's getting the ball and that's not – maybe not that's not necessarily his fault.

[01:02:53] But I think he can be a lot more impactful than he is. But that's not to say he isn't making a valuable contribution at the moment. I like him in the squad. Yeah, I've got the feeling he's going to be there for a while. Like he's – I think around 24, 25. Played a number of years at Parramatta. Played in their grand final. I'm told he's a real student of the game, always trying to learn things, get better. He's always having positive meetings with the staff.

[01:03:22] He's keen to just get better. And, you know, he's a popular member of the crew. He's a lovely chap like off the field. Like he's quietly spoken, polite, humble. I'm speculating but there might be a little bit of a he doesn't know what he's got kind of thing. He's one of those guys. Yeah, right. You talk to him and you're like, man, you're a badass. And he's like, what? And I'm like, look at you. You had a great game. Oh, thanks, Sam.

[01:03:51] It's like, come on, man. Like be scary or something. So I have seen him get aggressive on the field and it's quite fun. I think that maybe he's more in that kind of, I don't know, mid-2000s kind of almost robotic forward where he's relying on more of a rhythm and a routine rather than natural raw aggression, that kind of thing.

[01:04:20] So whether that comes later, I'm not sure. You'd think usually you'd have it earlier than later in your career, but he's not even halfway there. Like he's still pretty young. And I mean, I don't know what he's on. It's not cheap, but it's certainly not breaking the bank either. So I think, I think everyone's pretty happy. And look, I know he loves the coach and loves the players. And yeah, like Daniel said, I'm, yeah, I'm on board for sure.

[01:04:47] So, and he's one of those guys, you look at his stats cam and you're like, oh, he only ran for 45 meters, but then you look at the tackles and it's like 29 tackles, no misses. So it's like, oh, okay, that's what he's doing. So he's not really a stack guy. Sometimes he's got a nice offload that we've seen. So, but I think you're right. I think there's a bit of a higher ceiling there and hopefully we can get there. Uh, Daniel also says, uh, we've had our line of the sand moment, but this game was the

[01:05:16] time to set, reset and refocus. I'm full of confidence this week. Um, looking forward to seeing what Nico does. He's been sensational this year. He cops a lot of criticism, but it's not warranted. His stats prove he's an elite half in the competition. Also want to touch on next year, losing Talakai, Haradi and Raymond. It's a major loss.

[01:05:42] I can't understand why they don't play Michael Gabriel this week or, or last week. And he thinks Fitzy got that wrong. Nothing against Haradi has been great for us when called upon, but I think Fitzy needs to think long term here. Uh, there's a bit more to come. What are you, what's your thoughts on the Michael Gabriel? Is he ready? Not ready. Haradi, whoever else situation can. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:06:10] This is an interesting one because I guess we don't ever really know that these guys are ready until they get out and are given a game. And yes, unfortunately. Sharks debutantes don't necessarily have a great record on debut. Um, even though players have kind of turned out to be really fantastic. I think back, you know, we can rattle off half a dozen players that have debuted and had pretty ordinary debuts.

[01:06:35] Um, now whether or not that means you need to, to get them out there sooner rather than later. I, I don't, I don't know, but I guess where we're at now is that we've got to win the game. Yep. And I don't think we didn't lose the game because of Haradi's missed tackle. No. Um, and he's been good for us in the past.

[01:07:03] He's more experienced and at the end of the day, I think if you, if you, if we've got to win the game, I, I, I just think Haradi is through his experience alone is above anybody else at the moment. And now that having said that, I, we see young guys coming into other teams and it lights out.

[01:07:30] And so why, why wouldn't a young shark do that? And also at the same time, we know that these young sharks, there's a future for them in the team and we want to, we want to see what we've got as well. Don't we? We do. My thing on that cam is I don't care about next year. I legitimately don't care about next year. I'm going to care about next year, November one or whatever, you know?

[01:07:55] So, and when I say that, take that with a grain of salt, but I care about winning the game. So put in whoever's going to be the best to win the game. At the end of the day, if I had to really simplify the whole equation, I'm going to guess, and I don't want people to turn off right now. Just hear me out. But I'm going to guess the coaching staff know more than what we do about who's the best person.

[01:08:22] Having said that, Michael Gabriel's a really great natural raw talent. I don't think we've seen the best of him this year in New South Wales Cup. He's been in and out. He's been good a lot of the time and a lot of the time he's been indifferent. There's some reason why he's not getting the call up and he signed for next year. There's no reason to think he won't potentially start for his next year.

[01:08:49] But this week or last week, we can't say what's going to happen this week. Who knows what's going to happen? But last week against the Dragons, they went with Haradi. I'm of the opinion that the way that team played to a man, 95% of the players would have missed that tackle on that young fella coming off the bench with a point to prove. It's not excusable. In fact, it was really bad.

[01:09:17] But I can't prove it, but I think a lot of our players in that game, in that moment, would have made the same error or wouldn't have been able to stop him. Maybe it was a different kind of missed tackle. I don't know. But yeah, I think that they need to pick whoever's going to win. Not so much win the game for them. So I don't expect Haradi to win the game or Michael Gabriel to win the game. I think if we're relying on either of those guys to win us the game this week, we've got a big problem.

[01:09:48] But I think you're bringing in whoever's going to help them win. Wherever the most stability is, that's going to cause the least amount of friction, the least amount of change. That's who I'm bringing in. Whatever the answer is. I don't know who the answer is. I don't even know if I have an opinion on it, to be honest. I just want the best guy to play. So there's a bit on NRLW from Daniel as well, which we've covered.

[01:10:17] He does want to give a shout out to Jada Taylor and Quincy Dodd. And he said we're very much missing Emma Verrin. He's a fan of Georgia Hannaway. And looking forward to both of our games this week and getting the wins against the Cowboys in NRLW and the Raiders in NRL. That's from Danny. He also says, P.S. Your 2016 recap show with Ben Hallam is great. I was a member that year. Went to most of the games and remember the moments vividly.

[01:10:45] I sat next to my brother, a Knights fan of the game on the way home. He played the Sound of Silence on repeat on the way back to Penrith. Thank you, Danny. So if people don't know, I don't know how they don't know, but if they don't know, Ben and I do a recap show. And we go through every game from 2016, wrapped around 11, which hopefully we'll be doing this week. And we essentially, Cam, we watch the game separately.

[01:11:13] Then we come together and talk about it, talk about moments. And then after that, we play a clip or a whole show from 2016 itself with Adam Newman and myself. So it's this full kind of package deal and it's a lot of fun. And thank you, Danny, for your mail and for your praise. Let's move on to... Just quickly, Sam.

[01:11:34] Sam, I think one of the fun aspects of yours and Ben's coverage is at the NYC teams and who's playing and who we're playing against. It's a great... It's just an amazing time capsule there. And I especially love yours and Ben's critique of the coverage. That's the... Yes.

[01:11:59] Yeah, like the games are the icing on the cake, but the cake's really the critique of the coverage of the game and the bunker and the refereeing and the crowd. And so... We cover it all, yeah. It's a lot of fun. And yes, if a commentator says something funny, we're going to talk about it. And you don't have to have watched that game recently because we're recapping it for you. I think the aim is we want you to go back and watch it after that.

[01:12:26] But if you were too young to watch the games, a bit of education for you. So it's a lot of fun. I can tell you that, Cam. Now, one thing we haven't discussed, Cam, is that there is a signing that's taken place. And that is... We've signed Chris Matagi, who plays in the Super League. He's only a young fella. Yep. He's coming from St. Helens. He's only 18. He's going to be on a development deal.

[01:12:55] This is reported by our mate, Dave Riccio. He's a back row or middle forward with an increasing reputation as a powerful ball carrier. And he's doing really well for such a young age. His dad was the Samoan International Sua Matagi, who a lot of our listeners would probably remember as being a pretty bad dude. So that's exciting. Some more young blood.

[01:13:22] But, yeah, so we've got two forwards, haven't we, coming next year? Yes, from the Super League. And then from the Super League. And then we've got the young kid from rugby coming across. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, we're starting to kind of fill in some of those positions and probably a conversation for another time. But I guess, yeah, center depth is something we probably need to think about now more than forwards.

[01:13:49] But we'll deal with that in due time. There's a number of young guys coming through, Cam. Whether they're ready for – well, they won't be ready for all of them. Yeah. But there is a bunch of guys coming through who look good. Andrew wrote to us and said – well, Andrew wrote to us at halftime, which I – you know, that's cool. I like that in the moment. He was convinced we could turn around, but got that wrong. But he said, we missed Talakai from the bench.

[01:14:19] I think AFB from the bench the past two weeks has been a better option than starting him. He'll trust Fitzy, but he disagrees with him. And we were missing KL Eros runs. Now for the whinge and controversy call. And I don't know if I've missed this elsewhere, Cam, or I'm going to get to it, but Cam McInnes is past it. He's not in my 17 grand final day.

[01:14:45] If everyone's available, he's 18 and there for moral and emergency reasons only. That's from Andrew. I'm not sure where else it was. Maybe it was on the post-game show, but there were some people not happy with Cam McInnes. I personally still like what he does. I can find a use for him particularly from the bench maybe. I think he shores up the middle really nicely with his defense. I don't have a problem with his running, and you won't find a guy who will give you more.

[01:15:15] I concede he's towards the end of his career in the NRL, but I personally am going to try and find a space for him. I'd have to do the math with everyone being fit. I'd probably have Colhoun at lock, but yeah, what are your thoughts on Cam McInnes currently? Yeah, probably all the same as you. I think on the weekend he gave away a penalty and made an error kind of at the end of that first stint of his,

[01:15:42] which probably clouded the rest of his performance a little bit. But I sort of think he fits with our game plan in terms of being solid in defense for that first 20 minutes or so, shoring up the middle. All he's got to do is tackle really. And look, let's be honest, he's not going to not be in the squad, is he?

[01:16:07] We know Fitz's point of view on players and their right to kind of play in the team at this stage of both their careers and this squad. And so, yeah, I think it's just how he's used in the squad, which is going to be important. But I can't really see a situation where he's not in the squad somewhere.

[01:16:35] And I'd kind of probably rather see him start and just tackle his heart out. Yeah. Someone compared it to Dale Finucane's last year with us, and I thought that was different because, like, Dale's body was really busted. And, you know, don't get me wrong, he gave us everything he had. But I think that was a little bit where Cam might be in two years' time kind of thing. I thought that was a little bit unfair. I got the comparison, but I thought it was a bit unfair to Cam or to both of them, I guess.

[01:17:04] But it's something that is catching a bit of fire among certain circles of the fan base and happy to talk about it respectfully. But Cam and I are probably keeping him in our 17 at this stage. So I think that's all the mail, Cam. If I've missed any, we'll get to it. But I appreciate everyone writing in. Please feel free to do so whenever you like via the DMs, via the Gmail, sharkhustpod.gmail.com, or via the website, sharkhustpod.com.

[01:17:34] You can leave a very simple, leave a message which comes to us as an email, or you can leave a voicemail, which some people choose to do, and we can just chuck it up on the show. So keep that to about 30 seconds. Cam, have you had a chance to watch the Chad Townsend 2016 podcast series yet? No, but I have seen a few little clips that have been popping up on social media.

[01:18:01] So there was some with Maloney recently. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to – I've got to do a bit of driving over the next few weeks, and so I think I'm going to be Chad playlisting to catch up on some of these. Yeah. The first one's good. It's really good. The social stuff's really good too, so you should probably follow him on socials if you're not, where he throws up a lot of vision with the talking.

[01:18:30] I think from memory when I watched most of the actual YouTube video, the episode, there wasn't as much. I hope I'm not wrong saying that. However, it's amazing. The audio version is amazing. However you watch it or listen to it, you're going to love it, and we thoroughly recommend you go do that because there's no greater insight than the people that actually did the job for us. And, you know, a few people give me a little bit of a stick about my love for Chad, Cam, but have we seen someone take to the media as well as he has? Holy cow.

[01:19:01] Yeah, he's great. I mean, I think, you know, he'll – we'll always be a fan of Chad. So, as maligned as he was at times, I think he's got a pretty special place in Shark's history. And, yeah, he's doing a great job with the media stuff as well. And so, yeah. Good on you. He wouldn't get the offers if he wasn't good at it.

[01:19:28] So, it's not like – look, I know some people are like, oh, man, he's everywhere. It's like, yeah, he's everywhere because people want to hear him. It's the same with Luke Keery. I'm not putting him in the same category to start, but Luke Keery's on everywhere because he's currently on fire. You know, he comes off the back fence. And it's good to have a bit of fresh points of view, shall we say, in the media, in the football media because, man, it can be so small.

[01:19:55] But anyway, Cam, this week, 3 o'clock Saturday, we have the Sharks against Canberra at our favorite place on earth. You'll, I'm assuming, be down there? Yeah, sure will be. Excellent. Yeah, looking forward to that. Yeah, it's going to be interesting to sort of see what Raiders team turns up, isn't it? Like whether – it's going to be a weird week.

[01:20:23] The only thing that I will not look forward to is if they just come out and we want to throw a million offloads. And that's been our Achilles heel against the Raiders for the last couple of years. And so that has me worried. And, of course, you know, guys like Weeks and Savage play pretty well against us.

[01:20:50] Weeks in particular is where I think he likes playing against the Sharks because there's another 30 seconds on his highlight reel that gets added, I think. So, yeah. But I think that we'll get the job done. So, yeah. I'll tell you what to look out for is, especially from your vantage point, is Owen Paddy in the 40-20s. He's already got three. Oh, yeah. Three. So, yeah. I'd say that the Sharks are well aware of that.

[01:21:20] And the wingers will be working overtime because he's going to go for it. And I think maybe one of the halves has got one as well. So, four in total for them this year, which is a pretty high number. But three from one guy, that's a real danger sign there. Tom Starling is on the bench. So, it's not a bad team. There's weaknesses, which is a good thing. But it's certainly not a bad team. But I do expect us to bounce out. And I think we're going to have a pretty red-hot start.

[01:21:49] And hopefully from there, we just continue on and win. And win well, hopefully. But just you've got to win is the end result. So, not too much change for us. KL is back. And unfortunately, Fanua Blake is out for a week. Well, there's a bit of change. I guess Ramian's out too. But I would hope to see, and I don't know what it means for the bench, but I would hope to see Hoopapuru out there this weekend.

[01:22:19] He didn't get a run. Yeah. I mean, he couldn't. Yeah. It's the more of him, the better. I mean, I guess we didn't talk about it, but it was interesting to see BHU out there last week. And, you know, I guess he kind of, that fourth forward off the bench often gets the same role. You know, limited minutes did what he needed to do.

[01:22:47] But having Hoopapuru out there is too good not to be playing. Yeah. And I think that would probably limit ULA getting out there because you've got Burns, Talakai, Hazleton, if that's how the team stands. I know the coach wanted ULA to get some time to get the rhythm back. And it's sort of like if and when needed, he's there. And they still love and respect him. He may not stick around next year at this stage. There's nothing concrete either way on that one.

[01:23:17] But it's trending towards he may not. But it doesn't mean, you know, there's no bad vibes there. He obviously got a run last week. And we'll see what happens this week. The way the bench is looking, it looks like he may not. But you never know what's going on in that bench and who's going to play and who's got injuries that we don't know about, that kind of thing. So, but yeah, thanks for raising that because I wanted to talk about Braden. So that's cool. All right, Cam, we're going to get out of here. Thank you so much for your time.

[01:23:45] You got any rock and roll chat aside from the Massive Attack Show? What else is going on in rock and roll land for you? A few things coming up. But the most exciting thing is lucky to secure tickets for System of a Down for next year. So my son is System of a Down, one of his favorite bands. And we never really thought he was doing it. Are you saying that's a red hot ticket that you was hard to get? I think that they're more, I don't know whether the Sydney show has sold out.

[01:24:14] But I was incredibly anxious just because of my son's passion for the band and I didn't want to miss out. And of course, it's one of these big shows at Accor where there's about five different ticket options available on different days and all that sort of stuff. But yeah, no, got some tickets down the front.

[01:24:36] So he'll be in the pit for that in January next year with Faith No More and System of a Down quite a double shot of a concert. What's his knowledge of, I know he's a very knowledgeable young man of music. What's his knowledge of Faith No More? Is he all over it or? No, not so much Faith No More, but System of a Down, he'll rattle off his favorite, his 10 favorite B-sides or obscure tracks for you. But Faith No More, maybe not so much. Because I'm assuming once he would get his head around it, he'd probably like it a little bit.

[01:25:05] Yeah, I think so. I think he would. But yeah, I think in the lead up to that show, it'll be all focus on System of a Down. I didn't realize, to be honest, I know Faith No More is going to sell some tickets. I didn't realize that System of a Down were that big. That's a stadium show, right? Yeah, stadium show. So yeah, at Accor in Sydney.

[01:25:28] And I think that the Melbourne shows at Marvel and I guess Suncorp in Brisbane, I think they're both sold out. That's a lot of people, man. It's a lot of people. And you know what the thing is, is that it's... It's like Metallica size or whatever. Yeah, same place as Metallica. And that was why I was a bit nervous because we missed out on tickets to Metallica because it sold out. But it's one of those things where like, I think that... Yeah, Hudson mentioned to me about the Sunday.

[01:25:57] Like the Sunday, there was sort of like that really cryptic advertising around Australia. Then the tickets go on sale like a few days later and then bang, it's gone. So, you know, you wouldn't have wanted to have the flu for a week because it gets announced and sold out before you know the show's on. So... Well, you're in a coma and you come out of the coma, your family's celebrating. What did I miss? Well, yes. Faith, they're more sold out. I'm sorry. You can't go. Can't go. Yeah, okay. Okay. Is there going to be more acts, do you think?

[01:26:26] Is it going to be like a bit of a mini festival or do you think that'll be it? No, I think that'll be it. They seem to kind of like these co-headlining kind of shows these days. So, um... Is it almost co-headline or is it more... I think System of the Down kind of. Yeah. I think... And I'm sure that, um...

[01:26:47] I'm sure that a lot of it is just to do with the whole YouTube, TikTok embrace of, um... Chop Suey and a couple of these really great well-known songs. So I sort of feel like they're up there with kind of Rage Against the Machine and a couple of others, which are, um... If you ever go down the rabbit hole of watching, um... Uh... Reaction videos. Oh, yeah, yeah. I love those. Heavy metal. Rap dude reacts to, um...

[01:27:16] 90s rock songs or whatever. Um... Yeah. Uh... You're right. It is a rabbit hole. Like, there's no end to it. It's just like... I've seen, like, from John Farnham to all the bands I like to bands that never... Like, yeah, it's crazy. And I do love their reactions. It's... It seems like most of the ones I see are very earnest and very... Very natural. Like, they speak the truth. They're like, that's the most beautiful thing I've ever heard. And it's like, yeah, that's right. You know? Like... So, yeah, what a world we're living in, Cam. Amazing.

[01:27:47] Um... But, you know, if I'm hearing a band on TikTok, am I going to go then pay $300 to go watch them in a stadium? That's a lot of money. The reality... You know what? The reality is that you probably are, Sam. Or you might not be, but... Okay. But others are, and it just seems to be the... I'm open to it. I just... Yeah. Faith Amor once played at Promises in Sylvania, and my high school friends and I were laughed at at the door when trying to get in with our fake IDs and sent away. And we listened to them from outside.

[01:28:16] What year would that have been? Would that have been the first tour they were out? First tour, yeah. Yeah. So did all the suburban kind of beer barns and then probably came back and did the Horton or whatever. But out of all the Duke joints in all the world, they ended up at Promises in... Which I think might now be... It might be the Crest Hotel. Stop yelling at me, audience, if I'm wrong. But somewhere around there. But, yeah, distinct memory of going down there and all the hopes in the world of young Sam seeing them play epic and falling to pieces.

[01:28:46] And no dice. But I remember we stuck around and we listened to a lot of it probably before our curfew or whatever. And they sounded pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. There's a whole documentary to be made about these world-famous bands that played suburban pubs in Sydney in the 90s, isn't there? It would be fantastic. But I'll leave it to you. Carringbar, D.Y., Narrabeen.

[01:29:14] What about out your way? Yeah. So out my way in the suburbs was like the General Burke in Parramatta was a big one. Collector Tavern. Collector Tavern. And then you had Tracks at Epping Hotel. Which was a few. I'm sure a lot of international bands played. Like, I think not Ride, not Ned's Atomic Dust Bean, but someone of that era played Tracks.

[01:29:43] Like, a bunch of you played Tracks. So, Sam, yeah, a lot of them did because what you'd tend to find is that they would have like their big headliner sort of show, like the Annandale, on the Friday or the Saturday. But then on the Thursday or the Wednesday, they'd be playing at the General Burke or Tracks or somewhere like that. And so, yeah.

[01:30:07] But then also there would be a great, you know, Clouds, Welcome Mat, Coming Birds, Falling Joys, all of those bands to play all of these venues as well. And, of course, one of the, you know, there's one of the big kind of gigs that I most, we've probably spoken about before that I miss, which I most regret, was when the Lemonheads played the General Burke. I was going to say, the Lemonheads played General Burke. You know who else played the General Burke?

[01:30:36] Correct me if you have heard that this is wrong. I'm pretty sure on his workbook solo tour, Bob Mould played the General Burke Hotel. I'm pretty sure as well. Yeah. Yeah, because General Burke was actually a pretty, that was kind of like almost like Annandale Hotel tier. Yeah, but it was still a nightclub, you know what I mean? Well, yeah, because we used to go, we used to have to take, because I think they sort of had like an indie night on like Wednesdays or Thursdays or maybe even Tuesday night.

[01:31:05] And so we used to have to take two pairs of shoes to the hotel because we'd all be wearing our Vans or our Converse. And you get to the door and the bounce was like, no sneakers, fellas. Yeah. And so it was a weird dress goes in the early 90s. Yeah, I think I remember like a UMI show where we couldn't get in and they're like, yeah, you can't wear. And we were like wearing our All-Stars, obviously. It's like, what do you want us to wear? Does any other pair of shoes?

[01:31:35] Like, yeah, very odd. That was a very odd time. It was a great time. It wasn't so much odd. No, no, it was a great time. But like, why couldn't I wear my sneakers into the venue? Like, what's going on? Yeah, that's right. Now, before we, I know that you complained that we talked too much about music and stuff like that on the podcast. But for those who like us reminiscing about the 90s music scene in Sydney, I've picked up. Have you got an announcement of a separate podcast we're doing? Have you?

[01:32:05] You have promised me for years, Sam, that we'll have a spin-off of pop culture, Sharkast pop culture things. But no, there's a great book out about the history of the Hopeton Hotel. Yes. I picked up a copy. So for those of you who know and love the Hopeton, you know, scout around in your local bookshops and stuff like that. It'll be easy to find. There aren't too many history books about the Hopeton Hotel, but this one in particular is pretty great.

[01:32:32] I know you tagged me in a photo that yours truly was lucky enough to be in the, my name was up in lights. Was one of your bands, did they make it? Do we know? Yeah, I think there's a couple. A couple made them because one of the great things about the book, so, is that it kind of reproduces, you know, pages and pages of the weekly ad that was in drum media. Oh, wow. Okay, cool. And so you can kind of see the lineups.

[01:32:57] And it's really, it's actually pretty mind-blowing to look at who played there, you know, on just, you know, there'd be a week where there's like three international acts playing two quite famous local acts. And so those kind of time pieces are fantastic.

[01:33:17] So, you know, if someone produced a book, like a big, massive book of just nothing but the weekly gig guide ads for the Annandale, the Sando and the Hopeton, just sign up. I think I know a few people that can do that. So I'll sign up. I'll sign up immediately. You know, Cam, rabbit holes and that kind of thing.

[01:33:41] Someone, it might have been Adam from Smudge posted a page or something, a YouTube page maybe. And it's like hundreds of new things that someone put up on their behalf, of Smudge's behalf. And it took me through to this show at the Hopeton. And I don't know what year it was, but it was probably before the Manilow record. And I'm watching this one camera shot of the Hopeton.

[01:34:09] I'm like, the odds are I'm in this room. Yeah. And so they're playing. It's, you know, it's lo-fi. It's amazing. And a few minutes in, I'm like looking at a guy and I'm like, I think that's me. I look very different. And it is me. So I'm watching this video from, I don't know, close to 30 years ago. Like the whole set, 45 minutes.

[01:34:39] And I'm in this video, like young Sam, I think probably just of age and having a really good time. And it's so bizarre for me at least to see me like it's like a Marty McFly or something. It's hilarious. Well, I guess there's not that many, you know, I guess that there's just not that many videos of the era either.

[01:35:07] And so that's fantastic, Sam. I'll have to go. It's actually like almost from a crowd point of view. I think it's like right if you, I know you know it well. It's where the window was next to the stage. I think it's just like a, not even a tripod. It's just there. It might have been Tom's future wife, Letty. I'm not sure. Someone filmed it. But it's the whole show. And yeah, I'm literally going, oh, this is pretty good. But I'm wondering from there to like, there I am.

[01:35:36] And man, I was young and I look really bad and whatever. But I'm having the time of my life. And I actually remember the show now that when I saw it. But yeah, I challenge anyone to go do that if they want to get a bit of, I don't know. What's the word? If they want to just feel a few feelings about life and the lifespan and everything else. It's like, there's young Sam and here's old Sam. Very bizarre. Fantastic, Sam.

[01:36:05] I'll be racing off to look up those. I'll send you the link. Don't worry. I'm not going to put it up on the socials, but I'll send you the link. Cam Webb, thanks for joining us. Really appreciate it as always. Everyone else, keep in touch. Write to us. Subscribe, like, share. New NRLW episode out Thursday night with Quincy Dodd. It's amazing. I'm currently working on it. She's great. You're going to love that story. So please give that a listen if and when you can. Otherwise, we'll talk to you soon. We'll see you down at the game. Cam, thanks again.

[01:36:35] Up up for NOLA. And let's get out of here. Let's go. SharkCast is supported by the best and most honest real estate agent in the Sutherland Shire, Jason Hawes from Crips & Crips Real Estate. He's an expert in the Carring Bar region and has his eye all across the Shire. Lifelong Sharks fan and supporter of this podcast. If you're looking to buy or sell in the region, the person you need to be talking to is Jason Hawes from Crips & Crips Real Estate.

[01:37:02] Call him on 0410 417 450. That's 0410 417 450. Jason Hawes, Crips & Crips Real Estate. Sharkies! Sharkies! In the Shire.

[01:37:31] Turn your porch lights off because we're coming over the tree.